Today on the Book More Show, we're talking with James Khoury, a mortgage expert with 18 years of experience, as we dove into simplifying the home buying process for first-time buyers and his book, Finally Getting Prequalified.
We explored how a book can start the sales conversation by using some of the biggest questions clients have and James's example of the five key areas everyone needs to consider when looking for a mortgage: credit, budget, education, funding, and debt. James shared valuable insights on navigating these areas, emphasizing the importance of education and understanding your options.
We also discussed the long-term benefits of building strong, lasting relationships with clients and the power of sharing personal stories through books. Listen in as we delve into the building blocks of onboarding clients, including how James's book, educational classes, and social media presence all tie together to create a cohesive approach to helping potential clients. This is an episode you won't want to miss!
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TRANSCRIPT
(AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors)
Stuart: Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of the Bookmore show. It's Stuart Bell here, and today I'm excited to be joined by James Corey James Hodeon.
James: Hey, good Thank you for having me, Stuart. I appreciate it.
Stuart: Fantastic. We're both coming off the back of Coles, I think. So I tripped over my words already, so hopefully everyone listening will give us a little bit of leeway if we have little bits of a stumbling and stuttering and coughing as we go through. Great to finally catch up. I've been excited by this one because your book which I'll obviously get into the details, but your book is really the transcendental example of starting the conversation with some of the biggest questions that people have got in mind and then using it as a jumping off point. So I want to start with a bit of a background on you and the business and where you located, and then we can jump into the book.
James: Yeah, absolutely, thank you. Thank you again for having me. I'm excited to be here and share this with everybody. Ultimately, what we're looking for is to help consumers know, especially ones that have difficulties when you're looking to purchase a home, because I think for most people that's the ultimate goal is to become a homeowner, have something of your own, your kingdom, your castle, whatever you want to call it. We all work hard and want a place to go home to.
That's RO, and I found over the years of the last 18 years of being in finance and doing it that these five keys that we talk about in the book are the biggest hurdles for people. So I kind of wanted to essentially put something together and simplify it, because it's really not as difficult as it may think, as long as you have the right guidance along the way. Right, we've all. You can pull up and read anything you want on the internet and find whatever you want to, however you want it to be.
If you're looking for something negative, you certainly can. For positive, you certainly can, but this is just a nuts and bolts of the reality, of what it takes, what we need to do and how we get there, and my background has been doing this, as I mentioned, 18 years. It's a long time my entire adult life and I felt like it was time to put this out there and help people achieve that dream. If there was any thoughts that somebody couldn't do it, I wanted to let them know that you can, and I'm a prime example of myself.
Stuart: And let's get there. I'll throw up for people watching on the video. So the book itself is called Finally Getting Pre-Qualified. So obviously, a mortgage pre-qualification guidance, this idea that the five straightforward keys and the idea of simplifying it and giving people bite-sized chunks to sink their teeth into. I think a lot of people get themselves wrapped up when they're thinking about creating a book, because they overcomplicate it and think it either has to be unique or has to be an idea that's not been thought of before, or they have to include absolutely everything, when the reality is. This is the starting point of a conversation. So did you have a similar challenge when you were thinking about it in terms of what to include or what not to include, or was it pretty straightforward? 18 years of experience, these are absolutely your five starting places.
James: Yeah, I felt like these were the five most important things, because what have been some of the hurdles along the way are part of these five keys. So it's navigating through them, okay. Well, what does it mean? When you hear this terminology, you know credit. What are they looking for? For example, credit, and we talk I talk about that in there and I want people to understand that that's just one of the areas. So there's five key areas that everyone has to go through.
It doesn't matter, you know, as long as you're looking for a mortgage, obviously if you're paying cash or something, that you're not going through these. But the rest of us, 90% of the people that don't that have to get financing. You have these perceptions that you may have heard over the years that I need to have X amounts put down, I have to have this, and a lot of those are not true, especially in today's financing, and I think education is the biggest part of it and advising the consumers that you do have options. You don't have to have 20% because, let's face it, the market is so expensive now, housing everywhere, that majority of people, especially young, you know, the millennials that are looking to purchase even some Gen Zs now are getting into that as well. Don't have that capital, you know. So how can you avoid that and still become a homeowner?
Stuart: That's a great point, because some of the fundamental beliefs that people have might have been based on information that was true at the time, particularly if you get this information from a parent, but it's not necessarily true today. So, kind of rethinking what the reality is and helping people, kind of reposition what the real things are, going to make a difference versus what they might think. It's going to be that introduction to the conversation that ultimately leads to the next step, which is always going to be more detailed, and the devil's always in the detail. But the conversations that you have, these five keys that you've got, does that come in the majority of the conversations? This is really the starting point for most, no matter where they're coming from. This is really at least one of these five areas.
James: It really is, because they all need to be discussed, right, Like we have credit, budget, education and funding and debt, right, and all of those are touched upon and different facets of the conversations that you may have and think about, like credit, for example, well, where do I have to be? I think one of the myths is you have to have 800 credit, 750 credit, which is really good, and if you do, that's fantastic. I commend you Well during the people don't. But just because the scores aren't that high doesn't mean that you don't have options that are actually good options. So that's one area.
Budget is important, because I also tell everyone, just because you can afford something on paper and you qualify for it doesn't mean it's in your budget, right, Because ultimately, there's so many other facets of life that they don't account for, especially if you're thinking about it First time full buyer. Maybe you live with your parents, you've never paid rent, or maybe you've paid rent, but it includes everything, and now you have utilities. You have all these other expenses on top of it. So it is so imperative that people understand that going into it just because something looks good on paper and it works right Doesn't mean it's in your best interest.
Stuart: That idea of affordability, not just jumping through the hoops. I mean, that's a difficult conversation to have with someone because, as you say, the prices just that the baseline price on the property are so much more expensive than when you and I were that much younger. So the cost of just the first element is that much more. When you start adding in all of the things that you forget about and it really is two or three things that aren't accounted for can lead to an extra 100, 200, 300 dollars a month, which can be the difference between really living on the edge and having at least a little bit of a cushion to account for rainy days or unexpected incidents. With the people that you're dealing with. Thinking about who your customers are, is it mainly first time buyers and that younger age group, or is it movers or refinancers, people who have been around the block more than once and understand it? What's their level of education?
James: Really good question. On that I would say me personally. I deal with the majority of first time home buyers. I'm affiliated with a lot of nonprofits so we do a lot of education, educational classes, so majority are first time home buyers looking to purchase. I actually even with the refines over the last few years I actually still did significantly more purchases than refinances, which is not typical of what the market was. But I've always been a purchase heavy person and I geared towards that.
Obviously, repeat clients and investors but the majority are, I would say, it's their first home and I think a lot of times they're referred to me is because anyone that's been in the business that has known me a long time. No, hold their hand, I'll walk them through it, I'm patient, I'll respond. Things like that make them feel comfortable because I look at myself. I've purchased many properties over the years and it's a lot and it's overwhelming to me and I do this every day. So can you imagine a 27 year old buying their first home like what that's going to feel like? So I put myself in that shoes and I will hold their hand to the finish line and I don't mind enjoying it because at the end of the day. I want them to be comfortable, confident and know that they made the right decision.
Stuart: Right that approach, that hand holding approach, and understanding that it is complicated for people it's even highly educated people or people who don't get flustered and overwhelmed Just the volume of work that's required to get through the home-run process. It's not straightforward and the system isn't designed to be as it wasn't designed from a kind of UX perspective of making it as user-friendly to on-board people as possible. It's just a legacy system that's got a lot of challenge and individual moving parts to it. When thinking about the book and what you were including, was that a thought as well? You were very much thinking about? So were you thinking about the people who are reading it and how to streamline it and characterizing with the rest of your process? 100%?
James: I wanted it to be streamlined so that first time home buyers specific or anyone in general, but specifically her first time home buyers that may have had those questions along the way or may have had the apprehensions of, hey, maybe I can't do this or maybe I'm not ready to know, maybe they're not and maybe this helps them realize that they're close but they should wait because of their budget, or maybe that you know what you actually really are ready and if you want to and it's the time that makes sense for you, then you can do it. It's ultimately just giving them that knowledge. It's kind of like my hand-holding right, hand-holding them through the process. This is the exact same way. I'm giving them scenarios that have been happening in real life, that we've gone through some myself. I'm giving them real life examples of how to navigate through some of those things, because the ultimate goal is I want them to be homeowners, but I want them to sustainability right. I don't want them calling me in six months saying I can't afford this. What am I going to do?
No one wants that. You know that is the most heartbreaking thing. You've worked so hard to get there and now you're struggling. But if we can help you get that, what you need to, so that you know you're ready if something unexpected happens or something to that nature. You know confidently that you'll be able to stay and be there and move forward and then bounce back. But if you don't go through that and have that outlined, then you just no one wants to buy a house. And then you're heating. What happens if your heating goes in? Six months? It's possible Things happen Like you know that as a whole water there's, the most randomest things will happen and you're like yeah, and it's not inexpensive.
Stuart: Homeownership always reminds me of weddings or kids. You just can start adding zero on the end of it. There's a podcast I listen to. I remember the host talking about travel and he said it wasn't until I was in my 40s that I realized to make travel stress-free you need an additional $1,000, that you just budget and pretend that it's gone already. So then when the car rental place adds on a fee, or when there's extra parking, or when there's an extra train trip or something you need to throw in if that's all accounted for, it just relieves so much stress. If you're going in just bang on your budget and you've got no additional contingency, then every additional thing someone asking for an ice cream you're looking at the price of it before you think whether you want an ice cream or not. It's so stressful.
James: True, no one wants to live like that. It's tough, but if you put yourself in that position, then that ice cream could make or break you for the weekend. I hate to see that. It's a tough situation, but if you're ready we'll get through it.
Stuart: And it must be even more personal when you're dealing with a lot of referrals and repeat business and recommendations from organisations that you know work with. It's not like this is a very transactional business, where whole leads are coming in and then you just farm into more fells. Well, you've got a real relationship with these people. So knowing that you're putting them in a position that best serves their outcome not just allows them to do the transaction that they might want to do first, both on the kind of on the low side and the high side, but it's really thinking about the person that you're working with as a person and their kind of life going forwards beyond the point that you've finished working with them. That referral based business has much more of a real connection than just a transaction based business.
James: Yeah, it's way more important to me. I don't look at it as it's a transaction. You're purchasing a home. I'm helping you. I look at it as we're lifelong friends and I'm near from you. So I've had clients that I want to say now, like 14 years, where now one of them, like their kids, are buying which is hilarious to me but they will not do anything without calling and say what do you think of this? Or they get something in the mail on some random thing and they'll call me. I love that because to me it's not a transaction.
If I were doing this for the transaction, I wouldn't have done the book. I'm doing it because I want those relationships in the long lasting and I want you to think about. If you want to buy, call me. At the end of the day, it's not about money on my edge. I've been very successful, fortunately, doing this a long time. I care about the individual and if someone comes to me with something that is a better deal than we're able to offer, I'm very transparent and say this makes sense because of this. It's not about ego, it's about those relationships and those mean more to me than anything. I treat them like I would want my family treated and that's how you have to look at it, not just in a house or this and anything you do in life. I think if you put that out there like that, you're going to get better results and better long-term sustainable relationships.
Stuart: Yeah, it really has been in it for the long term. And thinking about the people on the other side of the conversation, I think that's what's beneficial. That's why I like talking to people about books. Because of all of the possible sales, lead generation type work, referral type work that you could do websites, line page emails a book really does carry something more than itself.
I think it's a carryover from when we were kids and even before that there's a value given to books which now, in a self-publishing world, I mean we're trying to leverage that a little bit because it's easy for us to create them. We don't have to go to a publisher and get approval to do it and it doesn't have to be laid out on a printing dress with a monk type setting everything. So there's definitely advantages that we can leverage, but the idea of sharing your small story, what's personally important to you, why these things are important, wrapped up in the pages of books that you can give to someone, that just sets the scene, builds the foundation of the relationship in a much more meaningful way than just a landing page or an email or the digital options that we've got now. When you were thinking about creating the book in the first place. Was it a long journey before thinking about it to eventually get started, or was it pretty quick? You saw us on a.
James: I want to say that it was about a five and a half year journey when.
I thought about it till completion and about a year and a half when it started, to finish, because life gets in the way, right, like anything else, you get busy. I wanted five years ago I had conversations with several people in my life that this would be really good, like I think it would be beneficial, and life goes on. And then the beginning of 2022, I said this is the year it's going to happen and that's when it started. There was a gap in between and finished at the beginning of about this year, 2023, but yeah, it was worth it, though At the end, I wanted to provide value. I mentioned the first time home buyers and doing a lot of those educational courses. I just wanted to be able to bring them with me and say, here you go, Like, if this are read, this is subsequent to this class, I think you'll get value to it and that's what it was about to me adding value in people's lives that are looking to get pre-qualified and finally buy their dream home. You know it was worth it.
Stuart: It's funny, isn't it? I mentioned a couple of times that we have conversations all the time with people who jump on the list and have an initial call with us years and years ago, and then time goes, and then, obviously, covid added the kind of time warp of two years anyway, and it equally seems to take a bit.
James: Probably would have been a good time to write a dance to it. Probably would have been a good time.
Stuart: I look back and think, oh man, how much of a missed opportunity was that in terms of things slowed down a little bit. I remember. So I'm 47, I remember my first job out of college was a financial services type job but we didn't have emails. I can remember getting an email in that job, but two or three years into that job. So that pace of life so much slower. But I'm sure there were other things that distracted us back then as well. But then, more recently I can't really comment to other people that scorecard book, the book looping scorecard that I wrote. I was looking back and I've got a mind map and I took a picture of six years ago of the initial outline for that and although all of the ideas in there, like you, are things that we talk about day in, day out, to actually get it finished or even started took long enough, probably care to admit. So it happens to all of us. A couple of shoes problem of so busy dealing with other people's books that don't get around to your own.
James: Yeah, I imagined.
Stuart: One of the things that get back on subject, one of the things that Spark to thought, just as you were talking, is the idea of the much class and home buyers class, the educational pieces that you do a lot of already.
So this was quite a strong thing funnel used from in the nicest sense of the word, but that opportunity to talk to potential clients. So the book itself, as you describe it, is a great way of supporting and almost reinforcing your message after the class. It also ties nicely in as a free class option. So if people using it as a referral tool, people you've worked with in the past, if you hear someone talking about struggling with them or with your house in questions, give them a copy of the book and then the book leads to the class as well. So talk a little bit about this idea, maybe not quite so formal, but this idea of how all of these things tie together. So there's conversations going on, there's a book out there that talks about things. There's a class that you have, there's probably other assets that you've got. How do they kind of tie together?
James: I'm guessing, thematically, they all have the same topic, obviously but yeah, they all really do, right, because everything starts with a conversation. Everybody's a little bit different, right? So some people are more methodical and want to kind of read through and look, so the book is perfect. Some people are more visual and want that face to face, so maybe one of those classes is a really good opportunity. Some people just like content.
So, if social media and other aspects that you put out, content that talks about programs or give little nuggets right, everybody's attention spans a little bit different, so some people are going to want to sit there and go through this and analyze it, and I think this is right for them. Other people want to just hear you talk all about it, right, like, I'm very visual and thought, so I need to like see it, hear it and I also need to read it. So for me it's kind of like all of them. But this gives everybody, of all different avenues, their exact way to be able to relate to it and absorb it and use that to get the nod. Whether it's the book or those classes or, like I said, social media as well, I think they but ultimately they all do work hand in hand collectively, because if you go to one and you get some nuggets from here and here. All together you create that big picture.
Stuart: That's such a great way of thinking about it, because the kind of fundamental idea that you've got so many things, certain other things that form the building blocks of how you'd onboard people, but now you've got the opportunity to pick and choose which one are the matches best for them, because you can tell in the conversation or you can't tell in the conversation because that doesn't come up but by presenting the opportunity to share these different messages. And it's always reinforcing because each of the class and social media posts and the emails in the book, each of them are really delivering the same message but in different ways. So they're reinforcing. And it might be I forget it was a Harvard study or something like that where it takes kind of seven contact points for people to become a client what the true math is these days for different industries. But having the different elements that you can refer people to, that really helps build those elements in and just gives more opportunity that someone's gonna see something from you at the point that they're ready to take that next step.
James: That makes it less transaction as well. To that relationship. Give them all the different areas that meets their specific.
Stuart: Yeah, I think we see it and I see my own experience of working with other companies as well, not as a provider but as a customer. There's many times where I would fully be on board with starting today. But if something just comes up, so it doesn't quite happen. Or today's maybe not the day, but a year from now is definitely the day. So if someone stays in touch with me, it's always in the back of my head. My computer screams at me sometimes because I've got too many tabs open, because I've got terrible habit of leaving tabs that I want to come back to at some point in the future.
But that's funny. It builds up to an insane amount. But this idea of having things that you can stay in touch with, people, understanding that you never really know when they're going to convert, just because they raised their hand today doesn't necessarily mean that today's the day for them. But to be able to use the stick with the book, use the book as an example to create some emails around and then refer back to as kind of like a tentpole piece of content Do you find that similar in the industry? People will enter your world or will know about you quite a long period of time before they actually turn into customers.
James: Absolutely, and part of it is not. Everyone's buying a house every day. So you're using those knowledge, you're taking that knowledge and information, you're jotting it into your memory, writing it down, however you know, keep tabs on that right and then, when it comes time, you go back to it. So just because you have consultations or you're doing those seminars doesn't mean that you're going to those people, are going to be in your lives at all. Let's just say they are. They could be three years down the road.
I've had clients in the past that have seen social media posts on stuff that we've posted and reached out and said, hey, this was great, I saved this from three years back and now you know they followed us along the way and we've taught them right. So they learned what this means, what that means and different avenues of the business. And then they come to us. So goes back to that relationship, right it's. You never know when someone sees something right, when they're going to eventually need it and it's in any business, not just ours. But you see things, you want it, like it, but it's not time for it. But when it comes back to it, you go and then find it, and that's essentially what this was kind of like the last piece of that. This book was the last piece of putting all of that together, like there's all these other areas that you can find us Now here's the last one.
Stuart: And it's such a amendment free your pressure, free way of people joining the world on you, knowing that they're more interested now than they were three years ago Someone opting into something it's a very non-threatening way of starting that conversation or re-engaging people and in a way that ties in completely with everything else that you've got done, I think for the referral type businesses people like you who've got a strong footprint and a strong community, always having it there to be able to allow other people to refer it as well.
So sending out that checking email saying, hey, it's been a year just checking in. If you've got any questions, let me know. Or sending out an email that talks about an education piece about rate changes and people's options, and then having that super signature of. By the way, if you know anyone that's got any other questions, grab a free copy of the book here. It's a great resource. Just allow us for such a non-threatening option for people to understand more about you guys and what you do. It's a great way of being a community first or a value first option for starting that conversation.
James: Yeah, absolutely, and it's not salesy, it's not a sales pitch, it's very direct. These are typical standard conversations. The keys are of what goes on with every person we speak with, and we thought this was just the perfect way here to go. And exactly, you know someone that needs it. Here's a copy of the book. Just read through it. If there's any subsequent questions that I can help elaborate, articulate better, that's specifically for you. I'd love to help out and that's all it is. It's just bridging that entire gap and kind of putting it all together. And this was the final piece and I'm excited about it.
Stuart: It's great to finally get it and the cool thing actually you've got a book leads back to the course as well. So those people who are more material. So it really is that it closes the loop, like I said, the final piece of the puzzle that closes loop. It's going to be really interesting to check back in on progress. Like you say, it's only just recently finished. We really had a chance to get it out there in the world too much, but it'd be really interesting to check back in kind of six, eight months and see how it's going. So if you're up for that, it'll be really good to do another show a little bit further down the track.
James: Yeah, I'd absolutely love to. It would be fantastic.
Stuart: Any pointers? So obviously we send out the show mainly goes to people who are on our list. So these are people who have expressed an interest in writing a book or obviously, our past clients. Any pointers? For people who are thinking about it but they haven't pulled the trigger yet.
James: And I say this do it, it's the best that you're gonna do. You will not regret it. It may take time and if you say you're gonna do it, like me five and a half years ago, it's okay. It takes you five and a half years, seven and a half years. Get it done, it's gonna feel good and you're gonna feel like you're adding that value. So, whatever you're trying to do whether it's for your business, never it may be to your life, to people. You're adding value and that's ultimately what this meant to me was I'm adding one piece of value and if it can help any consumer learn or believe that this is possible, that's worth it to me.
Stuart: Fantastic. As we're wrapping up, let's make sure that people can find out more about what you guys do. So where's a good place for people to go to learn more about James and the family?
James: Yeah, absolutely Simple. You can connect with us, our website, our team website. We closeyourloanscom. Very simple, Closeyourloanscom. You can also check us out on Facebook, Instagram and all of that at the Corey team. So it's the last thing, Corey team, you'll find us. We have a lot of content. We'll do a lot of spoofs, funny things and along the way, and that value was fantastic.
Stuart: Well, I'm sure we've got links to all of these in the show notes, so, as you're listening, check out the show notes either in the podcast player or over on the website. James, just wanna say thanks again. It's been really good to catch up. I'm glad that both of our voices held out a little bit.
We rescheduled them last week to make sure. So, on the road to recovery, I'm really excited. Just before we started recording, we said that we'll do a strategy call, just kind of brainstorm some ideas, because the work that I've done with other people who've written similar books with similar purposes in different industries, they've really had some great results and use them in certain ways. So I'm excited to share those with you and, like I said, well, jump back on another podcast in six months time on the track and we can update people on how the progress has gone.
James: Awesome. Thank you so much for having me, stuart. I appreciate it. This was fantastic and it's a blessing to be here with you.
Stuart: No problem at all. Well, thank you everyone. Thanks for watching. Make sure you check out the show notes and we'll catch you in the next one.