Today on the Book More Show, we're talking with Rajesh Jyotishi (RJ), Financial Advisor based in Atlanta and author of 2 books, The 5 Biggest Risks in Retirement & Money Talk.
RJ has been a pillar of the Indian community in Atlanta for many years and started a financial column in a magazine he helped create back in the 90's. Several years ago, he distilled this knowledge into a traditional book called Money Talk, and last year he created a conversation-starting book, The 5 Biggest Risks in Retirement, to answer 5 of the most important retirement questions his community has.
This is a great call as we talk about how RJ dialed in his audience by understanding who he can best help, how he chose the information to share in a conversation-starting book, and how he's using it to serve his community better.
RJ's passion for delivering value comes through in everything he does, and this call is a great reminder there are people out there hunting for the information in your head, and your book is a great way to help them start their journey.
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TRANSCRIPT
(AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors)
Stuart: Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of the Book More Show. It's Stuart Bell here and excited again because we're sharing one of our authors' stories. So today we've got Rajesh Jatishi with us. I'm just going to start with a quick disclaimer. I haven't done a number of compliance books that have to go through compliance. I'm kind of aware of the different compliance levels of each organisation, so let me just share this one quickly.
So Rajesh is a registered representative of Dempsey Lord Smith LC, which is a registered broker dealer and a member of FINRA SIPC. So advisory services are offered through Dempsey Lord Smith LC. And obviously all of this is opinion, none of its financial advice. Definitely don't take financial advice from me. Take financial advice from Rajesh, but only in person. So, rajesh, thanks for joining us. You've been in Lanto I was just looking at the buyout at Atlantis since 75, in financial services industry, since 91. To me I think we're similar age, so to me that doesn't seem like long at all, but I guess 91 is quite some time. So why don't you start by sharing the background and a bit more of your story and then we can get into the book?
Rajesh: Oh great, Thank you for having me here, Stuart. I'm really looking forward to this. So I came into the financial services back in 1991 and I'm originally from India. So back in 1991 here in Atlanta, there was really not a whole lot of ways that you can even reach out to the Indian community, because there was no media, there was no print, there was no radio stations. So at that time we actually launched a magazine at that time.
So I'm also one of the co-founders of a very popular magazine here locally called Tuber, which is KHA B-A-R, and we grew it for a long time. I was with the magazine for 22 years. I also host the Money Wise column in the magazine and about 10 years ago I sold it to my ex-business partners. But that's how I got into the financial services too. So it was a way to serve the community in a different sort of way, and over the years we've seen a lot of changes in the industry. I mean, if you look back from 1991, just remember the dot-com era and the dot-com bomb bust, and then we went to the 2008 crisis and recently the pandemic. So life is always throwing some curveballs at us.
Stuart: That definitely makes the 30 or so years go very fast.
Rajesh: So which came first?
Stuart: Did the magazine come first or the financial services career come first?
Rajesh: Actually, the financial services came first In my previous job. Before I got into the financial services, I used to work for a company that published a construction report and I was their production manager and I had some great relationships with my ex-boss and everything, so they would actually give us a key to their place once a month where we would go in with our own paper, use their opening equipment to be able to publish our little. We started out as a coupon mirror like Valpak, and then evolved it into a newsletter and then a newsprint magazine and then a four-color glossy magazine as it is today. But without the help of my ex-employer there's no way we could have started our publication.
Stuart: Right. What a fantastic way of making the most of spare capacity, being able to use those resources that I'm guessing to. It was obviously a generous offer, but to a certain degree they were kind of sat idle in those times. So being able to I don't know that we've talked about it on the podcast before, but Dean's got the kind of an acronym of VCR vision and capability and reach and the VCR method gets to market. It's more recent examples of kind of like the Kylie Jenner type makeup line of utilizing someone else's expertise and resource but her reach. But what you were doing back in the 90s, kind of identifying that gap in the market and then finding the resources to fulfill it. Such a great opportunity that is so true.
Rajesh: Yep. I'm always looking for ways to provide values, basically by bottom mission statement.
Stuart: I should say Right, and that's the identifying the need in the marketplace or in the community, even more than marketplace, the community to share, have this place to share useful information to an audience that isn't otherwise being served. We'll get to the book in a minute, but that kind of is the seed of that journey as well. There's information and uses in your head and what's the easiest way of getting it to out to the community. So the uptake of that and I'm guessing it must have been received pretty well, in part because it was something that didn't exist before. It was the first kind of game in town. But was there anything through that journey? That was a surprise. I guess you kind of went into it with a certain expectation but, having printed and published it for a few years, was there anything that came from? It was unexpected.
Rajesh: Well, actually we did not even know if you were going to be able to sustain it, because the Indian community back in Atlanta back in 1991 was very small. So we would literally only take three-month agreements from clients for advertising because, just in case we had to shut it down, we didn't want to take any extra money, we had to owe it to them.
Stuart: Right, yeah, that's a great point as well, because you kind of going into it laying the track as you go, so not wanting to or having the right balance of driving it forward, but not over committing and I guess the community element as well. You're picking up advertisers from within the community. They're probably putting faith and trust in you. So you don't want to be in a situation where all of a sudden things don't go as planned and then you're left with uncomfortable conversations in a relatively small community.
Rajesh: So I think our main strength was that we were able to grow with the community. So during the 96 times we had the Olympics here in Atlanta, right, and during that time after that, we saw a huge growth in the Indian community. After that, and especially during the dot-com era, because there are a lot of software engineers from India that migrated here and then the communities from around the country found out that standard of living in Atlanta is much, much more reasonable than New York or Los Angeles or any of those other places. So there was a lot more influx of immigrants in our community and we got a chance to grow with the community at the same time Right.
Stuart: That really is a seed of that idea of building with something. It kind of reinforces this idea of it's easy to overestimate the short term and underestimate the long term. I think human beings generally kind of think in this much shorter timeframe and have much more optimistic outcomes but then sometimes miss the wood for the trees and don't see the potential huge growth over a 5, 10, 25 year timeframe as opposed to just a few months, Switching it into the financial career then and then leading towards the book. You mentioned that you were running the column in the magazine. I often talk to people who are thinking about writing a book in terms of frameworks because sometimes, particularly if they've been in business for a period of time, it's an easy thing to build a book around, to kind of have that framework, have that way of thinking and then build assets that support it, because it's an easy way to share that idea. Did you find that with the magazine column and then leading to the day-to-day business and eventually the book? Did you have a very framework type approach or was it much more kind of a guinea-ant type column of just questioning answers?
Rajesh: Well, I really like to do creative work story. So for my 25th anniversary, I wrote my first book called the Money Top Retirement in the State Planning for Indian Americans. It's right here and it's also on Amazon in Audio, inprint and e-books. So it was just something that was more of a bucket list goal than anything else. I just wanted to write a book. And what do you write a book about? So I really like the spiritual and motivational type of things, but there are so many books on that already. I knew financial services, but there are so many books on that as well too.
So I thought why don't I write a book on retirement in the state planning for the Indian American community? Because I understand the mindset, the culture that we come from, which is a little bit different than the Western mindset. In the Eastern mindset, when the parents get older, sometimes you live with the children, the children take care of them, so a lot of their retirement in the state planning type of objectives are a lot different than the Western community here. So in my first book, that's basically what we focused on Just talking about the basics in terms of why we need to be more aware of the way things are done in the West, for example, like long-term care planning, because we don't know who our kids are going to marry, what their cultural values are going to be, and even if they can afford to take care of us, they may not be able to because they're traveling and whatnot. So the idea behind it was just to ask a lot of questions and share some stories, and that would prompt people to think a little bit more about their futures.
And I got a lot of positive feedback from the people that read the book, so I was very encouraged by that. So to celebrate my 30th anniversary, I wrote the second book, which is the one that we're here to talk about the Five Biggest Risks in Retirement. Thank you In this one here. What I realized when I wrote the first book is that most people don't have time nor the inclination to read a big book. Right, yeah, especially if it's on financial services. It's not like the most entertaining subject in the world.
So that's why we wrote a much more smaller book, something that can be consumed in 30 minutes to an hour, or maybe at the most like 90 minutes, and just to get them to start thinking about the most important things they need to be worrying about. Yeah, and in the book we also give them some solutions too. Not just the problems, but here are some of them, solutions that they can consider if they feel like that they have that potential risk in their life.
Stuart: It's such there's so many things to unpack from even just those few minutes of description, because the two examples that you've got the original book, which is a more traditional book, and then the 90 minute book, which is more targeted at a specific campaign. So the two things I really like from what you said is this idea in the first book of understanding who the audience is. So you're a financial planner. If people look on the 90 minute book's website, in the gallery there's more than one financial retirement based book. So finding that position or angle or the way that you present it, from knowing and understanding the audience and not thinking how is this going to appeal to the broadest group of people? But how is it going to appeal to the group of people that I engage with and can add the most value to Such a fantastic way of thinking about it, whether it's a traditional book or a 90 minute book? Because it separates you from the market and, at the end of the day, we're creating these books for the most part not to sell copies of the book's authors but to sell the ideas and then encourage people to ultimately allow us to help them some more.
The specifics on the first one that you talked about, which I, even in leading up to this, I never really thought about, was the idea of educating the Indian community on the difference in the Western culture and where they are now just the products that are available.
So not even so much writing the book that was talking to the Indian community about how they might be currently thinking or what they might have wanted to do, ideally based on the values that they brought with them from overseas, but instead saying here's the values, here's what we're trying to maintain, but here's the practical steps of how it currently exists and the kids might not be here in the same way that they would have been previously. The feedback I can imagine you were saying was great feedback and I'm guessing that there were some lessons that you took from that or some of the points that resonated that then ended up in the second book that was more specifically based on a campaign and perhaps a more business focused outline. So was that the case? Did you really take the lessons or the ones that resonated with people from the first into the second?
Rajesh: Well, most definitely so. In the first book, what I did was I did a serving of my clients, friends, prospects, you know email lists or social media, and just asked a bunch of questions in terms of you know, on different subjects, you know how prepared you feel that you are for retirement, what are your two biggest worries, those type of things. And then I also included some of those results in the book just to reiterate, say, hey, you guys told me this thing, you know, this is your, these are your answers. So so what I learned from that is that most people have, you know, the most common worries that they have is that you know living their money, health care expenses, not being able to take care of themselves, the risk of longevity, in terms of you know, those type of things. So a lot of that did make a difference in helping me write it in the five risk books too. Obviously, there's a whole lot more risk than five right, right.
But I use an analogy in the book. You know if you had to climb Mount Everest, you know the tallest mountain in the world you know if you reached the top, would you consider yourself a success? If you said yes, you would only be half right, because in order to be a real success, you got to reach the top and also come down safely too. And Everest actually claims more lives on the way down than it does on the way up. Why? Because you know people, you know let their guard down.
Stuart: Yeah, yeah, that's such a fantastic insight, isn't it? Because sometimes misplacing, where the goal is not having it quite at the right point. So I mentioned we do a number of books with financial services, people, obviously all different kind of angles to it, but it's not the first time I've heard someone describe this issue of they'll. People will have a target of $500,000 in a retirement account or a million dollars in a retirement account, and they kind of focus on that number and not actually what it means. So no concept of the bigger portfolio, what they're trying to do, or no concept of the balance or the income being the more important, maybe then just the net worth number.
So it's very insightful and I think the benefit of the five risk book which, by the way, if people are watching on YouTube rather than just the audio there's a screenshot just on my shoulder here, the cover I love the cover that you've got. I think the colors just pop in and a very obvious metaphor again for people listening that watching it's a kind of domino falling type metaphor and then being able to stop it. So this idea of the elements of the five risks being the starting point of the conversation, as you said, obviously there's more than five, but it's a good starting point to help people conceptualize perhaps the most important or the most accessible, and then there's an obvious next step that leads through. So is it easy to pick which five to include?
Rajesh: I would say yes, because a lot of them are just very straightforward. I mean, the five risks are taxes, inflation, stock market risk, health care costs and what was it going? Longevity, Longevity. So those are the five biggest risks, which is something that we see on an ongoing type of basis. We look at the current inflation that somewhere we're experiencing the volatility in the markets, the fact that we're all living much longer.
Stuart: And the five are ones in the top of people's minds. So, given that you're trying to start the conversation with someone at the beginning of their journey with you, it would be crazy to think about some esoteric risk on systemic failure of an insurance broker, of a stock provider. I mean, be pointless talking about that element, at least after 2009. It might have had more airtime then, but joining people where they're thinking about and leading them towards it it's one of the issues that we have when we're talking to people who've been in business for a long time is that the level of understanding and the level of knowledge and the level of complexity that you tend to be dealing with once you've been in business for a while, you move past the base level, because that's either taken care of by a system or a junior partner or something else you as the business owner or the person more senior. It tends to deal with more complicated things. So it's definitely a conversation that we have to try and remind people to just remember where the people are coming from. They're at the beginning of this conversation and you might think these pieces of information are too basic to include, but for the audience, this is exactly what their thoughts are the frameworks that you've got the five risks.
It's another thing that I really like about this book and I actually use it as an example when I'm talking to people quite often, because it's very straightforward. If you only looked at the table of contents, there's a very straightforward journey from the promise of the cover or the title through the chapters towards a call to action at the end. So, as you're thinking about bridging people into the next step, as they're getting a copy of the book and then thinking what to do next, I like your follow on actions that you've got in the book. Do you want to talk a little bit about where you lead people after they've read the content?
Rajesh: So one of the things that we have inside the book is a resource page so that some of the things that we talk about in there. I also have a YouTube channel where we have webinars on demand as well as we talk about the solutions to some of the problems that we talk about in the book. So one of the things that we offer them is where they can go for the resources if they want to learn a little bit more, like buy ways to pay for a long-term care, because it's something that not a whole lot of people know how to do, and there are a lot of people that may actually need to depend on Medicaid to qualify for that, and I actually went to a certification program to be a certified Medicaid planner last year, just for the knowledge, not because I wanted to do the Medicaid planning, but I realized it's a very complex space. It varies from state to state, and in order to qualify for Medicaid, you have to kind of spend down your assets in order to do so, and while doing that, sometimes what happens is that they empower the spouse, the surviving spouse, which is more often than not the lady of the house, because the men need to care earlier that they are using their cash and their savings to pay for it. They empower themselves in order to qualify for Medicaid. But I mean, that is just an example.
So when we talk about a lot of these types of things, the resource pages are really helpful. And if you go to our website and you download well, first of all, the five risks are available on Amazon and everything but if you want a free download of the book, you can go to our website at insurancewallacom, which is insurance-w-a-l-a-dot-com, and just put in your name and email address and you'll get a link to download a free copy of it. And if you do that, you will also maybe you will get a campaign of some of the resources that I talked about in the book. It's a two, three thing. I'm not going to spam you and all that type of stuff. I'm not really going to have the time nor the inclination to do anything like that, but I didn't want it to just reiterate the points that are in the books, because you know it is.
We read a book, so it's important that we forget about it. You know, out of sight, out of mind type of thing. So the objective behind it is still to get people to take some form of action. I mean, even if the action is, say look, I don't really have a plan, I'm going to have to work on something. Yeah, I may need to rely on my kids to take care of me, or I may have to do, you know, part-time work or something like that.
Stuart: Right so, but it just you start thinking, go into with your eyes open and have an awareness of what the situation is, not be kind of delusional, hoping that it'll be something that it's not going to be. Obviously there's enough time to do something about it, but at least having that awareness and acceptance is the first step. The follow-up campaign that you were talking about there in terms of amplifying some of the points within the book, within emails Again, it's a point I talked to a lot of the one-on-one clients, the strategy clients, about how can we kind of make the most of this asset now it's created and I often use the example of my email box is a bit of a disaster in two parts One because I don't always get to all of the emails, but the other reason, which is relevant, is because I mark as unread the things I actually want to do something about and with the perfect execution and the perfect will in the world, then I get back to all of these things, but time moves on and something else will happen and I don't get back to it. So the opportunity that you've got to follow up with people, both within that campaign immediately after they update those next seven to 10 days, but also in the long run.
We've got this concept of people make the decision to take the next step. You can't force that decision on them and really there's only two choices Is it for them it's either today or it's not today, and if it's not today, it could be a week or a year or a decade in the future. But by staying in touch with them over the long term and sharing, reinforcing this useful, valuable information, you've got the opportunity to intersect with them the day. That is the day for them, let's say, whether it's today or a couple of years down the track. And it's not a case of spamming them, it's not selling the list to someone else.
It really is a case of amplifying and sharing the useful information, which is something that they opted in and requested in the first place, just trying to add value, and I think, like you've done, the five elements within the book are those five easy things to conceptualize and get started on, but the supporting elements that are on the website and the YouTube channel just really add some depth in a broader sense. So, as someone's interested in this element, they can dive a little bit deeper, or someone else will be interested in another element and there's resources for them. We talked there briefly about the book being available on the website. How else are you using it at the moment? So using the physical versions and the digital version?
Rajesh: Yes, so when people opt in on the digital version, I just asked them and if they want a paper copy, just email me. Then we just mail it to them. Or when we meet with clients and stuff, we will give them a copy. And here's a little book that I wrote might be helpful for you, and if there's any way I can help, just let me know. It just allows them to understand my perspective on some of the things that we're discussing, because everyone has their own money philosophy, right, so engine.
Stuart: Yeah, exactly that idea of not filtering people, but the people who get a copy of the book, who come into the office sat down in front of you. There's such a benefit because they feel like they know you, there's some rapport being built, you know that they've got some amount of not education but framework, at least that you're talking about things in a similar way, rather than coming for a discovery call out of the blue and then maybe it turns out that they've got a completely separate perspective. So it definitely does a job of, as I say, not filtering so much but rapport building before that conversation. I really like the idea and I've suggested to a couple of people. I need to follow up with them to see if they actually ever did it. But for the people who are sending out the physical copies, we're looking for opportunities to kind of amplify that even further. This idea of either folding a page down and writing a little personal note on the page or putting a little bookmark in and saying, oh, this is actually my favourite point, is just to kind of amplify that personal connection a bit more. The idea of the, to a certain degree, the book being a gift is an element of gift giving, about receiving something physical. So I always want to follow up with someone to see if they ever did it, but just add that little bit more of a personal touch. Actually, I don't know why I'm waiting for someone else to do that. I should just do it with our books, the Breakthrough Blueprint books that we've got over our own. We sent some of those. I should just do it with that. Okay, sorry, I was digressing that. The reaching out to new clients coming in and they've got the opportunity to get a physical copy and the digital copy. Do you do anything with kind of that? You might have heard us talk on the podcast before.
Jim Hackings is an immigration lawyer, a good friend of mine. He's actually my immigration lawyer as well, someone I would recommend anyone to work with. So in some of the work that we've done together we've talked about this idea of him being the go-to person for that family. It's such a personal connection, it's such a charged environment, the whole immigration process, that you really do become that family's go-to person. And passive referrals come in all the time just because there's such goodwill around it. So the opportunity to orchestrate those referrals a little bit and use the books to send them out to people in the immigration sense after they've got the immigration benefits. Okay, the next step is to look at this next tier of people. If you had opportunity to do that with clients and use the book as more of an orchestrated referral tool to say, hey, if you hear anyone talking about tax problems or retirement concerns, here's a copy of the book you can give them.
Rajesh: Yeah most definitely, and we also, you know, in the process of creating a webinar behind the five biggest risks and where we go more in depth on each risk and the challenges and solutions and everything else. It may even do this like a series of webinars too, because I think nowadays people gather information multiple ways Some are readers, some are watchers, some are listeners, so we want to make sure that we offer all the different mediums. Sometimes the most effective way is just the emails that we would send out. You're saying. You know, here's a little article I wrote on five ways to pay for long term care.
And it's something that can be consumed in a couple of minutes, drives a point home, and if they're interested, then they can contact us and we can figure out what solutions are going to be right for them.
Stuart: Right. That's why I love five, like three to five things in a book. I'm holding up four fingers, I don't know why. Three things in a book that are on point for the overall subject. They're easy to consume and easy to get started Because then you've got the opportunity.
So the webinars that you were talking about I can envisage an element of that, where either it's recorded as a single go or recorded as five parts and the email follow up is the five parts. So almost sending them the copy of the book and saying, okay, here's what's going to happen over the next five days. For the quick start, people, here's a copy of the book, get started. Over the next five days I'm going to send you five short webinars where I actually go deep and go into some of the behind the scenes things and then from those five elements there will be excerpts and one, two minutes snippets from the you could use in social media advertising or promoting the fact that people can download and get the full copy of the thing here. The email that you were going to, you mentioned going out and talking about the five steps to pay for long term care. The super signature at the bottom of that PS is two ways to get started. If you want a copy of the book to read the other five risks, just grab a free copy here. And the best next step is to personalize this for you. So come into the office, schedule a discovery call. We can assess do a retirement risk assessment for you individually the fact that it's such an anchor piece for all of this other opportunity to add value and reach out to people. It really is such a benefit because it makes that next step easy for people to consume.
I just noticed the time. I've always got slightly carried away in podcasts. I look up and realize that half an hour goes past very quick. So I just want to be conscious of your time and really appreciate you coming on and sharing this with people. As we're heading to wrapping up. Is there anything about the process of the two books not even so much the process of the two books, but how they've been received out there and some of the benefits that you've seen as a business owner and more as someone who's really passionate about helping the community? Is there anything that's come from the books that's been unexpected or wasn't necessarily what you had in mind going into it?
Rajesh: Well, I think it just gives some validation for some, and I'm hosting the column in the magazine for 25 years, so that's already there. I already have a pretty good reputation in our community with the services that we provide. So I mean all of those type of things. But I think having the books basically just gives you additional credibility, especially if you're talking to newer people that are not aware of you.
And I think, in having some of the other things available, like the YouTube channel and whatnot, if people can just see and hear you and your demeanor, I think it makes a big difference than just talking over the phone or reading in a book too, so it just allows them to really connect it a little bit more personal sort of way. So that's really been my intention is just to once again provide value, which is a number one requirement. I mean, I'm only one man, so I can't serve the entire world, but at the same time, whoever needs help and wants to reach out to me, I'll do what I can Right. So you know, and I practice what I preach too. So anything I wrote in my books whether it be on the long term care planning, the way to reduce market risk I practice what I preach in the book too, and have done for a number of years.
Stuart: I mean, that's the thing that comes across. It's the I don't even want to say credibility, because that's not the right word but it's the authenticity, to a certain degree, of your approach and your passion with helping the community through the column, the longevity of that, the extra value that you're providing in other resources and other mediums. But just this approach and I can definitely imagine that the people that engage with that, who don't know you until they come in that first contact point, is going to be so much more, so much more of a personal connection than it would be otherwise.
Rajesh: But I really enjoyed doing the books with 90 minutes books, you know, stored and I actually have another one that's already in the works on finding affordable health insurance, because my wife and I they care for a couple of thousand people every year, you know, for qualifying for Obamacare, medicare, all the other type of things, and it is an area of expertise that we've developed, and so I got already started on the book, you know, and I'm looking forward to release that later on this year as well, too Fantastic, and it's just another way of seeing, you know, is this a better way than doing the big, larger books, you know, because I do need to do a revision of the money top, because now five years has gone by, a lot of things have changed All right, so we've got some new lessons learned from the pandemic which can be included in the original book as well too.
Stuart: Right, exactly, I mean that idea of making sure that something is not set in stone and it can be updated to keep it relevant and keep it valuable.
I mean that's the benefit of 90 minute books as an example, because they are much smaller and easier to manage and maintain, but any book it definitely should. Be the case that I think there's this traditional sense that it's I don't know whether it comes from where books came from, in the sense of like printing presses and the fact that it was virtually impossible to create them. So they do very much get this concept of being set in stone and that's it. And even when you look at like technical things, like ISBNs and revision numbers, it's very much based on as soon as the inks dry on the page, that's it and it can never be changed. And then something else is a different thing, which really doesn't reflect today's society and how quickly information changes. So I'm really looking forward to helping get that second, one or third one out there and looking around a funnel for that as well. So as we wrap, then I want to make sure that people have got access to you and what you guys are doing. So what is the best place for people to follow along and check out more of what you and the business are doing.
Rajesh: Well, the best way would be just our website at insurancewallicom, which is insurancewacom. It's a unique name, being a sense that Walli just means a provider of, so that's a. I also have another website too, for Shalin Financial, which is more of the financial site. Shalin is my older son's name, so the company was named after him. Ah, fantastic. But the insurancewallicom has got a lot of our resources to look down loads and all the different things, and if you'd like to join our email blast, you're more than welcome to download a free copies of both of my books. When I do creative work, it's more about sharing than selling.
So I just like to reach as many people as possible.
Stuart: And that's the underlying. I think that's the benefit of having helped over a create a thousand books now and I think we're about 900 or so authors. The theme across everyone is this giving first mentality and sharing value, and we've got so much collective knowledge in our heads, unfortunately. I mean, it's this sad side of being in business for 10 years that you must see the same people pass away Unfortunately and you think of all of that knowledge that they take with them. So it's definitely the benefit of working with guys like you and our other authors. It's that giving first mentality. So I'll make sure we've got links to insurance wallet in the show description. Hopefully it's easy enough for people to remember as well. Coming from the UK, there's obviously a big Indian community in the UK. So when I remember seeing the URL on the book as it was going through in the first place and it brought a smile to my face because it was a term I hadn't heard for a few years. So I'll make sure that we put a link to that in the show notes. So, rj, just want to say thanks again for your time. You really shared some great information here. Hopefully it's encouraged some people to jump in help their communities as well. So thanks again, and we'll check back in in a couple of months or a year and see how things are going, or maybe after the next book launches. We'll check in again and up there. It was a pleasure, stuart. Thank you for having me here. No problem, everyone. Thank you for listening and we'll catch you in the next one.