Today on the Book More Show, I'm talking with Dean about two great subjects. The opportunity to syndicate your book and the art of conversational conversions.
If you run a coaching group, generate leads for people, run a sales team, or anything where your success depends on other people's sales, then the opportunity to create a book that other people can use is a huge advantage.
We know that for most people, the idea of creating a book is beyond what they are willing to do. Even with a simple process like ours, it's just not something they think about. Know how straightforward a book can be to create, you can leverage that 'willingness gap' by essentially doing it for them, and benefitting from the conversations they're able to start.
We finished by talking more about those conversations and the opportunities for conversational conversions.
If you're looking to convert someone into a customer, there are really only two times; now or not now…
Once someone asks for a copy of your book, it's your ability to create a conversational conversion that will take someone to that next step.
Another great episode.
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Transcript: Book More Show 095
Stuart Bell:
Hey everyone. Welcome to another episode of The Book More Show. It's Stuart Bell here, and today I'm talking with Dean, about the opportunity to syndicate your book, and believe the art of conversational conversions. So, if you run a coaching group or you generate leads for people or you run a sales team, really, anything where your success depends on the success of other people's sales, then the opportunity to create a syndicated book is, and can create a huge advantage for you.
It's often the case where people are talking about books being complicated or difficult to create. It's something that's beyond most people, but even with a straightforward process like ours, it's just not something that they think about. So now, listening to this, obviously know what we do, knowing how straightforward it is to create, then really, you can get into this willingness gap or this kind of capability gap and create something for them, which they can put their name on.
You've done all the hard work, but knowing that you have a vested interest in the outcome, you can really benefit from the conversations they were able to start from the book that you've created on their behalf. So that, conversations that they get started with the book, then lead us into the conversational conversions conversation. And really there, we're looking at if they don't engage, then it's not knowing.
So this idea of trying to cover all of the variables of when someone might be ready to get started, really, it just boils down to either now or not now. And this idea of conversational conversions is really the way that you can take the next step. So the book is a great way of getting them to raise their hand, but this conversational conversion process is the way that you stay in front of them.
Stay relevant to the conversation that's going on in their mind already, and then be there, when now is now for them. So with that, I'll let you get to this great episode and I'll catch you on the other side. Mr. Jackson?
Dean Jackson:
Mr. Bell?
Stuart Bell:
How are you doing, sir?
Dean Jackson:
I'm good. What do you have to say for yourself on this fine Friday?
Stuart Bell:
Well, it the end of another week, the end of another month. And the year is going scarily quickly already.
Dean Jackson:
It is, isn't it? That's right.
Stuart Bell:
Time flies when you're having fun. That must be nice.
Dean Jackson:
Yeah.
Stuart Bell:
Yeah.
Dean Jackson:
Yes.
Stuart Bell:
Well, today, to continue with the fun-
Dean Jackson:
What do you want to know?
Stuart Bell:
I want to know, are you... Two things, I'm not sure whether we'll get to both of them, but two things that have come up so far this year.
Dean Jackson:
All right.
Stuart Bell:
First one, lots of people talk about syndicating books, subject that we've talked about a couple of times before, and talked about on More Cheese Less Whiskers. But I thought it would be great to dive into that at the beginning of the year.
And then the second one, which I'm not sure we'll get to, is the follow-up, and, "Okay, I've written a book. Someone's requested opted in. I've maybe gotten an initial conversation going with an autoresponder. But what do I do to keep that conversation going?" And that ties in nicely with the kind of dial talk done type world, so-
Dean Jackson:
Sure. Okay, so your being in syndication is a nice winning formula, especially if you're in the business of coaching a number of the same kind of businesses, to make more money, to get more clients, to get more leads. A book is a great idea for them, for anyone who wants to grow a business.
And so, if you're the kind of person who is helping them do that, then especially, if they're a local eyes type of business... If you're talking about chiropractors or dentists, or anything that, where the service is done on a local basis, a personal trainer or a lawn service, or landscaper or bathroom planner, all of the things. Just think about the businesses that are only marketing within a very specific geographic area. Then that lends itself to a syndication, which is what we call when we're doing one book, but then licensing it, or redoing it for many people.
So, perfect example, on the real estate side of our business, we have a book called How to Sell Your House For Top Dollar Fast, which is a great title for a book. It matches our book title formulas, right?
The How to Sell Your House For Top Dollar Fast, is crystal clear as to what it's about. And anybody who's thinking about selling their house would want to have a book that shows them how to sell it for top dollar and do it quickly. So, a lot of winning on that.
Now that title, it'd be a shame to waste a book title like that, on just one real estate agent, in one town, when the same book could be used for many real estate agents, with very little change.
I mean, the way we do it, and we've got the whole process kind of set up, and this is through... I love all the way that our sort of collection of companies-
Stuart Bell:
Yeah.
Dean Jackson:
Collaborate with each other in that, on our go-go agent business, we collaborate with the 90 Minute Book team to syndicate that, How to Sell Your House For Top Dollar Fast book, to other real estate agents, where they get a custom cover for the book, where they're featured as the author of the book, and their information is on the inside pages of the book along with the, "Whenever you're ready, here's three ways we can help you," all the end matter of the books, or all the things pointing you to the right direction, are customized for each individual realtor. But it feels like they've got a unique book that's only for them.
Stuart Bell:
That's just theirs.
Dean Jackson:
Yeah. And the thing is, they're, if one's in Poughkeepsie, they're only going to, only people in Poughkeepsie are going to see that one, and someone else in Kennebunkport, is going to be marketing it in, just in Kennebunkport. So if you are in a business where you're doing that as a coach, it's a really great tool, because you're helping them solve the problem that they need, of how to get more clients.
Stuart Bell:
I think that's the thing, isn't it? Trying to be in a position of a coach, trying to encourage people to write their own book. A subset of people are going to do that, and be enthused and engaged, and have the time and the mental bandwidth to do it.
But for all of that group of people who are at the point where they don't quite see it yet, or they don't have the time yet, or they don't have the inspiration, as to what it could be about, or the enthusiasm or willingness to do it, to be able to give something to people that serves 80% of the job, but with 8% of the effort to get it set up... As a coach, as the organizer of all of these thoughts, it's such a great way of filling that gap, that is difficult to feel as effectively in another way, to be able to do it once, and then have it there on the shelf waiting to go. And then still have other options for other people who want to do it.
A few of the books that we've done for people have turned into syndication ones, almost coincidentally, because they've ran their first version first, and then have shared it with other people, and that conversation has led to, "Oh, well, how can I get the same thing?" So they more almost got into it as a, as an individual project, but then it's turned into a bigger, much bigger syndication opportunity than they were even thinking beforehand-
Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Right.
Stuart Bell:
Just because of this element, yeah. I think that point of, Betsy and I were talking about last week, I think we'd think this difference between, some people get very protective and possessive, and want it to be their thing with their name on it, and it'd be all about them. Where that's really missing so much of the opportunity. Changing it to the job of work, of what it's doing, just allows for much more of this syndication idea.
Dean Jackson:
Yeah. And there's the thing, I mean, if it's really, if you're looking at something like, that information can be conveyed, in a standardized way, then it makes total sense.
Stuart Bell:
Yeah. Even so, we've got several white level projects, and have several, had had several more in the past. And there's quite a lot of variation about how we can set those up. And again, this is something that's grown organically by dealing with people in town. They individually want to set up the project.
So the top dollar example of where it's very automated, it's very cost effective way of doing it, because we're just collecting some static details from people, some known details from people, and then adding those into a known place, creating the individualized version of the book. But some of the other projects that we've got, which have been a little bit more detailed, but still fall into this kind of white label syndicated route, goes from a financial planning type book, where the variables change state by state, because the rules change state by state. But it still changes within a known set of variables.
So someone will come on board, and then we'll start working with them, and get those details from them. And then, what ends up is a customized version, which can change state by state. So there's not a limitation. That doesn't have to be a limitation. Three to ones where we've allowed people, the partners that we've been working with, have allowed them to add more of a intro paragraph, or a closing section at the end of it, where they personalize it a little bit more specifically for their business, maybe talk about their approach to working, but still within the framework of the rest of the book has been the same, through to the most complicated version that we've got.
We're having the structure of the book, the questions that we ask, the bits that formed the chapters, all of those are set up as part of the syndication, as part of the project, but then how people individually answered them. We're asking them the questions, and then they answer in their own words. So it's still structured, but there's obviously more work and more personalization, so, the variation, the opportunity to syndicate in many, many different ways. It's been very interesting, working with people over the last several years, to put these in place.
Dean Jackson:
Another way of syndicating, certainly, is how our friend Nick Nanton has done lots of compilation type of books, where they'll get different people to write a chapter.
Stuart Bell:
Right.
Dean Jackson:
Or be a contributor, and then everybody has the same book, so... Yeah, there's lots of opportunity there, I think.
Stuart Bell:
Actually, that's an interesting one, because I think we were talking about something similar with Chris Hill, maybe, but his, the book that he wrote, went in a different direction. But one of the early ones, we were talking about it, and apologies if it wasn't Chris, but he has access to a number of different people in the voluntourism space.
So these are all organizations that are trying to make their mark in a movement based-space. And he's got, he's the common thread between them all. So one of the options that we were in talk about there was interviewing each of those, to bring that together, to create the book, which is, then you can get that synergistic effect of all of the people being brought together in the same place.
On a white label, a syndication type approach, I can imagine something similar happening, if you are in an organization, or heading up an organization, that has a breadth of experience reaching out to the five or 10 people who are experts in the individual areas within it, and then bringing those together as various chapters, and then allowing the whole organization to use that book as a lead generation piece.
That will be another opportunity that doesn't rely on you creating all of the information yourself, but you're the person bringing it together, in a way that creates something for the greater good. It's something that is much more valuable than any one of those people could do individually.
Dean Jackson:
That's right. And that way, and then you've got, now it's becomes more of a... It's going to enhance any sort of coaching program or any type of relationship that you have with a client-
Stuart Bell:
Right.
Dean Jackson:
In that you're giving them an actual tool that is going to grow their business.
Stuart Bell:
Exactly. And something, that it would be difficult for them to do by themselves. I mean-
Dean Jackson:
Yeah.
Stuart Bell:
We make the process easy for people to do, but not everyone knows that we exist. So, I'm able to say, that as a member of the community, just being given that tool, as a off the shelf solution. It's a fantastic value add to the program itself.
Dean Jackson:
Hmm. Indeed.
Stuart Bell:
Thinking about the idea of having multiple people contributing to it made me think of the kind of follow on actions. So the book itself is created in an easy way, because it's bringing together the collective knowledge, but then, you've got the opportunity of adding and augmenting the book with interviewing those same people in a video follow-up, or an audio follow-up, or getting them on the call to go into the chapters a little bit deeper, which kind of bridges into the second subject we were talking about.
Okay, now if someone's opted in, how would you follow up with them? What's a good way of following up with them, and keeping them engaged, until the point that they're ready? So-
Dean Jackson:
Yeah.
Stuart Bell:
The initial autoresponder is obviously the first thing they should get in place. But the opportunity to add some more value, and add some more of this information, that's similar in subject, but just goes deeper in three different mediums, is a great way of following up. And then, that obviously leads into the dial talk done podcast type of photo, of being that reason for reaching out to people on a regular basis.
Dean Jackson:
Yeah.
Stuart Bell:
I think it's something that people still don't quite conceptualize. Do you want to talk a bit about the idea behind the thing?
Dean Jackson:
Yeah. Well, the whole thing, I mean, everything that we're doing is based on our 8-Profit Activators that we talk about in The Breakthrough Blueprint. And the book is a profit activator, too, tool, which is just getting invisible prospects to raise their hand.
So, when you're looking at a group of people who live in a marketplace, say Winter Haven, or whatever, if you run an ad offering a book called How to Sell Your House For Top Dollar Fast, the people who you can expect that would ask for such a book, are people who might be interested in selling now, right?
n:
Just like if we did a book called The Adult Acne Cure, anybody who asks for it would be someone who has that on acne that they want to get rid of. So it's an identifier, more than anything, is to get the right people to raise their hand.
Now we're immediately into Profit Activator Three, where the whole goal is to educate and motivate them, so that when you make an offer in Profit Activator Four, that they are willing to come on board. And you move them right into your during unit, and help them get the help that they want.
So when we look at it that we, we've got a great starting point, when somebody asks for the book, the thing, the metaphor that I always used is to imagine, it's like a magic portal to your office. And as soon as they press Download, or Send Me My Book, on the button, that they're immediately transported to your office and there's a little knock on your door.
And they poke their head in, and say, "Hey, I'm here about the How to Sell Your House For Top Dollar Fast book." Or, "I'm here about the How to Get Rid of My Back Pain Without Surgery Book," or, "I'm here about the Adult Acne Cure Book," and whatever the topic is, that they're presenting themselves to you as a lead.
I often say, I don't like to think of things in terms of leads, because it's very dehumanizing, in a way, that makes it very like numbers, right?
Stuart Bell:
Yeah.
Dean Jackson:
But I think, but I'm big on acronyms, and so, I created an acronym to harmonize my dislike for leads with my desire to take a one to one approach, and I think about a leads, think about leads, as somebody poking their head in your window, in your door, and using the acronym L-E-A-D-S, of Let's Engage And Do Something. That's what they're saying basically.
Stuart Bell:
Right.
Dean Jackson:
It's like, when somebody says, "I'm here about the How to Sell Your House For Top Dollar Fast book," that is really them saying, "Hey, I'm here and I'm interested in selling my house for top dollar."
Stuart Bell:
Right.
Dean Jackson:
Or, "I'm here, and I'm interested in curing my acne." And so, whenever the title is, that's why when we title the books, we make sure that we're, what we're doing, is tapping into the silent dialogue that's going on in their mind, the conversation they're already having of, "Oh, I wish there was a way I could get rid of my acne," or, "I'm thinking I want to sell my house, but I hope it goes quickly." So you're tapping into the desires.
That's what creates that momentum, that somebody would want to ask for it in the first place. So when they do that, now we, it's got a great opportunity for us to engage in a dialogue, and the whole thing that we're looking for now is, are they five star prospects?
And so, we put them through the Five Star Prospects Filter. And a five star prospect is someone who is willing to engage in a dialogue. They're friendly and cooperative, they know what they want, they're ready to get it, and they would like us to help them. Those are, those five things have to be true, in order for us to help somebody.
So, everything that we're doing, is just taking us through that process, of identifying a checklist kind of way, is, are they all of these? Are they willing to engage? Are they friendly and cooperative? So if somebody asks for the book, and we send them a message that's related to what's on the book, if you say, "We send them a message that the morning after they've downloaded The Adult Acne Cure Book, and say, 'Hey Stewart, welcome aboard. How often do you get breakouts?'" That's a reasonable question that you might ask to somebody, who presented themselves in your office, asking about how to cure their acne.
Stuart Bell:
Right.
Dean Jackson:
It might be a reasonable thing to say, "Well, how often do you get breakouts?" And if they reply to that, now they're friendly and cooperative, and you've got a dialogue going, and your whole thing is to see, and explore in that dialogue. Do they know what they want?
Stuart Bell:
Right.
Dean Jackson:
Right? And so, if they're saying, "I constantly get breakouts and you're asking them, "Well, what have you tried so far?" And they say, "Well, I've tried everything." Now you're going through all of the things, so that you understand what's going on with them, and that they understand that you understand.
Stuart Bell:
Right!
Dean Jackson:
Now you can see if they're ready to get help with it right now.
Stuart Bell:
That conversational element of it, I think people get so hung up, or caught up with the idea of, "I just want to put leads into the top, and it's a numerical game, jumping through their pinball machine, and out of the bottom spits a client is ready to go."
Dean Jackson:
Right.
Stuart Bell:
So it's so easy to get caught up on that, which, unless you're at a 100,000 leads a month level, it's just not, it's not the case. The reality is that you're more likely dealing with individuals in the tens a week, rather than in the hundreds a week, and those conversations, especially once you know what the chess moves are, what the next five steps are likely to be, those conversations are very easy to deal with manually, because you're going through the motions that are predefined.
You know what, that's, friendly, willing to engage, you know what they want. You know what the ideal candidate is for that. And then you can add the personal dynamic to it, and that makes such a difference.
I was talking to you, I was doing some work with Dave yesterday. And we were going through a couple of e-mails there, reaching out to people, in a kind of, nine-word e-mail-type setup. And the difference between one version that looked very automated and impersonal, compared to just changing a couple of words, so that it looked very personal, as if it was literally a one on one e-mail. That conversational conversion idea is game changing, really, when you think about it.
Dean Jackson:
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean, that? Yeah.
Stuart Bell:
I was just going to say, that idea of then expanding that over the long term, and understanding that, not now is not now for everyone, but now is likely to be now for anyone who will convert. So, being able to stay in touch with people after they've got to the end of that cycle, but not necessarily, they just weren't quite a Five Star Prospect, because now isn't now for them.
So this thought of keeping that conversation going, but doing it in a way that presents them with opportunities, they've raised their hands when now is now for them. The podcast approach that we talk about quite a lot, I think that is a very friendly way of doing it, because the alternative is something like a newsletter or broadcast, which immediately falls into that automated broadcast, easy to ignore type route.
Whereas a podcast, if you've already got, the whole context of it is a friendly conversational approach. We're creating a rapport with listeners, and listeners have a rapport with us, even though we're not actually meeting face to face, just because of the nature of the conversation.
So that, as a way of staying in touch with people, I think, has a extra benefit to it, just because of the medium, almost. And because of the psychology of, it's not just a newsletter which everyone sees as just broadcast material.
Dean Jackson:
No, exactly. But there's, the thing about that is that you can address some things, that when you're looking at the flagship, the podcast, I mean, can become your flagship communication that everything revolves around.
That when we look at people coming in from a book, the only two time frames that we're looking at is, it's either now, that they're ready to do something now. Or it's not now, and that it sounds so simple, but it's taken me 30 years to get to that point.
Stuart Bell:
Right.
Dean Jackson:
To really understand the profound implications of that. And so, I'm doing everything that I can, to be there when the time is now, when it's now. And so, all I'm trying to do, when people ask for a book, is to determine if they're ready now.
And if it's not now, then it's okay. And I go into this orbit, of this cadence, of a weekly podcast and two e-mails a week, or whatever the right cadence is for the appropriate kind of scale-
Stuart Bell:
Right.
Dean Jackson:
Of whatever business somebody's in, that the cadence gets into. I would say there's not many situations where twice a month would be the minimum level of reaching out.
Most cases, you could probably do weekly, and in some cases, even more, but whatever you figure out that case is to be... The podcast is a great way to get your message, all the things that somebody would need to know, to be educated and motivated enough, that when the time is now, they're ready to take action.
And it's just such a, it's such an elegant model. It really is.
Stuart Bell:
Yeah.
Dean Jackson:
I mean, I've just seen it applied to so many things. And once you get it up and running, it's just such a beautiful, it's such a beautiful thing. It's a asset.
Stuart Bell:
Yeah. I think it's, well, the term, just like we talk about the books, and a book can mean many different things. And we're looking at the minimum effective dose end of things, thinking about the job of work that it's doing, and not getting too drawn into the other things that don't make the boat go faster.
Exactly the same with the podcast. You see, at the one end of the spectrum, there's the very low cost services that just broadcast audio, which is great for doing what they do, but it doesn't necessarily take any of those boxes of the engagement piece that we're talking about. It doesn't give you, present an opportunity to be in front of people, apart from in that one particular audio channel.
Then there's the approach that we take, the middle theory approach, which has, the audio channel is good enough, but it's easy to do. We're recording on lines like this. We're not going into a studio, we're not trying to route a line, everyone up to be in the same place at the same time. But then we're also putting a lot of focus on staying in front of people across different channels.
So, putting it on the website, sending out an e-mail about it, putting social media posts up about it, so that it reminds people, that if they are on the edge of now being now, then this is the thing that has the opportunity to trigger them.
And then, there's the very expensive end of the spectrum, where people are suggesting that the only way of doing it is going into the studio and having music beds underneath, and producers and engineers tweaking dials and things like that, which, just like a very big, heavily produced book, is great if you're trying to compete with NPR, but very expensive on that, and unnecessary if you're using this as a tool to engage with people.
It's such a great place and time now, that there isn't just one opportunity. It isn't, you've got to invest in mastering right or nothing. Or there's only cheap tools or nothing. There's a nice blend of possibilities that really achieve the type of work, the outcome that you're trying to get, which, in our case, is really that, the opportunity to stay in front of people, in a way that gives them an easy way to take that next step, when now is now.
Dean Jackson:
Yeah. I like that.
Stuart Bell:
Your way of saying it seemed much more concise.
Dean Jackson:
That's funny!
Stuart Bell:
Yeah.
Dean Jackson:
That's funny.
Stuart Bell:
But it is exciting times. It's, being kind of-
Dean Jackson:
And by the way, that whole process can also be syndicated to your, if you're looking at a, if you're coaching people on how to get new business, this whole, that whole sequence, can be syndicated, in addition to the books. So you're not just giving somebody a book, you're giving them a whole client getting system.
Stuart Bell:
The whole system! And do you know what? I've never actually thought about that before. Which, it seems crazy, the amount of conversations that we have about the individual elements, but that idea of syndicating the podcast element as well-
Dean Jackson:
Yeah.
Stuart Bell:
So that it is an end to end system. I mean that, is just a... In fact, I've immediately just thought of three people that we deal with, where that is going to be a game changer for them.
Dean Jackson:
Yeah.
Stuart Bell:
Yeah, yeah. Being able to share the content, and then, allowing people to come back to the local representative.
Dean Jackson:
Yeah.
Stuart Bell:
Yeah. That's fantastic. Cool.
Dean Jackson:
I love it!
Stuart Bell:
Okay, well, I think we've given people more than enough to think about. One of the things I wanted to mention quickly, before we go, is the conversational conversions that we were just talking about is part of E-mail Mastery. So, as you're listening to this, if you haven't downloaded a copy of the E-mail Mastery book, head over to emailmastery.com, and grab a copy of that.
Because that goes into some of these elements in a lot more detail, and then, will help refine the thinking around it, which is really, the podcast and the books and the tools that we've got are fantastic. But really getting this conversational conversions idea down is-
Dean Jackson:
Yeah.
Stuart Bell:
Will be a game changer, so...
Dean Jackson:
Awesome.
Stuart Bell:
Perfect. Okay, well, thank you for your time again. We will speak to you next month, and I will see you on Monday.
Dean Jackson:
Okay. Talk to you soon.
Stuart Bell:
Fantastic. Cheers. Take care, buddy. Bye. Bye..
Dean Jackson:
Thank you, bye.
Stuart Bell:
And there we have it, another great episode. Always great to get Dean's insights, and it's really a surprise every time something new comes up, like the podcast indication idea there, which, again, when you think about it, it seems obvious.
But there's some real leverage to be taken from that follow on process, not just the syndicating of the book at the front end. So, fantastic episode.
Again, if you want to dive deeper into your book idea, then head over to bookblueprintscore.com, and you can measure or score your ideas against the eight mindsets that we've had. If you've got any questions about that then just shoot an e-mail to podcast@90minutebooks, and then we'll pick it up.
If it's something more one on one, either just make a note on that message, or follow the Contact Us options on the website, and we'll pick it up from there. And, of course, if you're ready to get going, if you've got a syndicated book idea, if you just look into our book for yourself, then reach out to us.
We can have a conversation about how best to set that up, or jump on the, follow the Get Started links to get started, and we're here to help you take it through.
Okay, so before I should pay for any other words, I will leave you to enjoy the rest of the weekend, and we will catch you in the next one.