Today on the Book More Show I'm very excited because I had a chance to catch up with Justin Breen, the owner of PR company BrEpic in Chicago.

Justin has a fascinating background as before opening his PR company; he was a journalist for many years. It's this experience that's valuable here because he's very dialed into what hooks people and captures their attention, especially the media.

A book is a great way to do this because it's still seen as 'something different', a way of sharing an idea, but also to put that idea in an interesting context.

Justin shares some great insights into ways to make your book do more, but the main takeaway is the idea that although the information you're sharing with potential customers is fantastic for starting a journey, people are often more engaged when there is a hook.

This can be a personal story or background that creates an emotional connection, and it's especially true when you're trying to get your story shared because the hook is going to give people a reason to talk about you, and an opportunity for you to share your message and encourage people to take the conversation further.

Bill Bloom Episode

More about Justin:
BrEpic
52 Dates in 52 Weeks

Book Blueprint Scorecard

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Transcript: Book More Show 089

Stuart Bell:
Hey everybody. Welcome to another episode of The Book More Show. Stuart Bell here, and today, I'm very excited, because I got a chance to catch up recently with Justin Breen. Now, Justin, I was introduced by a Bill Bloom. Bill's name you might recognize from previous episodes, he has written a couple of great books with us, and got some great examples in previous podcasts, but Justin, super interesting because his background for many years was as a journalist, and more recently he owns a PR company, but with his background, it's very dialed in to what interests the media, what hooks we can use to engage them a little bit more, and in the sea of things that we have passing by, encourage people to pay attention to our stuff. With some of his clients in the past, and him himself, obviously a book is a very great way of getting people's attention, sharing that story, but also putting it in an interesting context. So, great show today. Highly encourage you to check out some of the show notes.

We've got links that to Justin's work, his website over at brepicllc.com, and he also shares a story about a particular media hook that he had. I won't spoil it, but a story that involves his wife and a years worth of dates. So again, links and show notes to that. But the main takeaway for us is this idea of the information you're still sharing with customers, and potential customers, is fantastic for starting that journey, but the media have got different motivations. They're less interested in the individual details, because it's too granular. There's not much of a story. What they're looking for is a hook, and very often that hook is a personal element, or a story, or some background, something of public interest or general interest that is going to give them something to talk about, give you a reason to be in front of them, and give you a reason to share that message and encourage people to take the conversation further elsewhere. So, with that, let's get on with the show.

Hey, Justin. How are you doing?

Justin Breen:
I'm doing wonderful.

Stuart Bell:
Fantastic. It's good to catch up. We had a catch up, which now seems a long time ago, but the year goes fast, so it's good to touch base . Excited to get you on the show, and share your experience and background with the audience there.

Justin Breen:
Thanks so much. I'm really excited to talk. It's been a wonderful journey since I started this company. A lot of ups and downs, and I think I've got a lot of great advice to share with folks.

Stuart Bell:
Yeah, it's going to be really interesting to hear your take on it. So, I'll give a bit of background, how we met from my perspective, and then you can jump in with the background of the organization, and fill in the gaps and then we can go from there. So, Justin was introduced to me by Bill Bloom. Bill, you'll have heard on the podcast before. We did a episode, which I'll link in the show description, earlier this year, talking about his book and how he's been using it. Then, Betsy and I, as we're talking, we refer to Bill pretty regularly, because he's just a great example that stands out, and it's easy to give context to people as you're listening in. So, Justin was introduced as someone else in the Chicago area, Bill recommended that we had a chat. I think we'd scheduled maybe a 15 minute catch up, and almost an hour later we stopped talking.

Justin Breen:
Exactly.

Stuart Bell:
Yeah, definitely one of those relationships that resonates. So Justin's got a super interesting story, because his background is bringing comms and corporate communications, well I call it corporate communications, correct me if that's wrong, but the communication strategy to the things that we're doing, and how to get the story out there. So, books obviously resonated as a jumping off point, but what really struck me about the conversation that we had was how to weave in some of the elements of a story that starts with a book. How that can be the hook, but how that can then weave into the whole rest of a narrative in a communication strategy. So, do you want to jump in, Justin, and give people a background more on the organization, and then your version of that conversation?

Justin Breen:
Well, I really appreciate you having me on. My entire business has been built just by connecting with high level folks like you, who took a chance to achieve their dreams in life, and then more importantly, are actually doing that, and accomplishing it. So, I had a dream about 30 months ago to create a PR firm. That entire business model was based on how PR firms annoyed me for 20 years when I was a journalist. So, everybody loves at that, but that's why my company is called BrEpic. That's why it works with amazing visionaries around the world, now. I just work with the people I want to work with, and I'm starting to scale my business. It's just amazing from what I've learned meeting with high level folks, and listening to them, and implementing some of their strategies into my business too, but just very, very quickly, cliff notes version, my company creates stories that are super interesting, very similar to what I did as a journalist.

It becomes a link on the client's website, under news, or blog or something, and then I pitched that link to media around the world. If media's interested, I put them in touch with the client contact moving forward. So, I've worked with a giant companies, Like AllState and University of Illinois and Morgan Stanley, but I also work with Solo printers, a lot of folks who are launching books, because it's an obvious loose peg, but the model is what works, and it works with any vertical, any size company, any location, it doesn't matter. So, it's been fun man. A lot of ups and downs.

Stuart Bell:
Well, and it's interesting the way that it came about. You're talking about, or oftentimes people talk about, a company starting from scratch in a niche, but almost the way that you started was a niche coming from other people in the business. So, seeing what the pain points are, and then jumping in to solve that from the recipients. I think starting off as a journalist, and coming to the PR comms world, for how can we create things that are going to be the most effective for the people that are ultimately being sold to, in the point of view of picking up that pitch? So, we see it quite often, as people reaching out to us, they've got the beginnings of an idea or something that they want to talk about, but don't necessarily have that dialed into a strategy, or a funnel, or a campaign as we sometimes call it. So, looking at that, you mentioned having the book as a peg there.

Have you any advice for people as they're thinking about writing something on what is the best approach, whether it is to have the story, and then look for a hook, or peg, or is it to think of the peg, and how it might resonate with journalists, as a campaign, and then tailor the story to meet that? Is a chicken and egg type situation?

Justin Breen:
Excellent question. So, I'll answer like this. So, here's what media needs, in terms of a good story. They need something interesting that's not boring. So, something inspirational, something clicky, something just fun. My skill set, my unique ability is I can talk to somebody for an hour and 55 of those minutes will be totally worthless to what the general public, and what media cares about, but in five minutes somebody will tell me something that I'm like, "Oh, that should be the story, and that's how it should be framed." So, media needs that, but then they also need a news peg, meaning why is it a story now? So, the fact that you're launching a book, or you're expanding your business, or you're going to be speaking at some big event. That's something to tie the story to.

In terms of writing an actual book, I'll just tell you my background on that. I created this list of 30 things that I've learned in the 30 months that my company's been around. Again, just from listening to very high level folks, and then squirreling some of that information away, and then implementing it, and then watching it, how it helped my company. So, I created this list, posted it on social media, because I've got about 37,000 followers on social media, and I'm like, "Oh, this would be a great social media post," but what happened is so many folks are like, "You have to write a book on this, because it's inspiring me. I'm struggling with starting my business, or I don't know whether I should start a business, and how to even get started." People were bringing this list to meetings with me. They went and printed it out and stuff and I'm like, "Oh my. Okay." So, if enough of these high level folks tell me to do something at this point in my life, I'm like, "Okay, I just do it."

That's where the inspiration for this book came from. There was no intent to do it at all, but I'm like, "If enough people are calling me to do this," and these are people it's worth listening to, I'm like, "All right, I'm going to go do it." So, why not?

Stuart Bell:
It's surprising how the seed of an idea that you don't necessarily see the end game from starting, but it's one out of 10 things will get traction, and then the comments, and the feedback, and the direction starts coming from external sources. It's really quite important to be dialed into that. As you're saying, if enough people with credibility are saying it, then there's definitely something that is worth following up. I think that, so often, happens, that you can't necessarily tell what's going to be the success, or which piece is going to resonate with people beforehand, but being on the lookout, being tuned in and waiting for those indicators as and when they happen. That's where you can then amplify it and run with it from there.

Justin Breen:
Yeah, and the cool thing is this book isn't going to be hard to write, from my perspective, because it's been in my head for a two and a half years, if not longer. So, the writing is not going to be that challenging, I don't think. It's more of the marketing aspect of it, and that kind of thing, and design. I'm not a designer per se, but media has already wanted to talk to me about this book. They're excited that it's coming.

Stuart Bell:
So, with that in mind, I guess sticking with that as the example is going to be interesting, because as people are listening, they can follow the Genesis of the idea through to the beginning stage of it coming together, and then how you plan to use it in those first couple of months after launch. So, you were talking about the peg as being an event, or something that media can grab onto as a reason for writing something in the first place. So, the fact that the book has being written, and comes out there, I'm guessing just from hearing a couple of words already, some of the backstories that and why it's interesting is going to be your story, and how the book came to place the fact that it was out there, just as a blog post to begin with, but then you started to get all of this feedback which makes it broader, and there's reference to other people, and more interesting.

Justin Breen:
That's correct. Yeah.

Stuart Bell:
Given that it's 30 steps, so there's a natural progression to that, and 30 things that could go out for it, would a strategy be more to orchestrate that into a longer burn, for the followup campaigns, or the way that you position it with different media at different times? Or is it more a case of, "Okay, we've got a peg. It's timely, it's being released now, so let's do almost a blitz on everything as quick as possible, to try and get more of a groundswell of interest, at this point of time?" So, is it better to try and string it out, because you can't necessarily match with all of the cycles out there, or is it better to try and go all at once and really go from the peg?

Justin Breen:
These are such good questions, because these are the same types of questions I have for my clients, in terms of... Half of my clients are longterm, one story, two stories a month, over six months or a year. Other clients are one story and just pitch it over three months. So, there's the longer play, and then there's the let's get this out, quick hitter, and try and drag it out as as long as we can, but obviously not too long, because there's only a certain amount of time we can do that for. So, for me, I see this... One, again, background. I'd never expected to write a book on this, so I'm going with it, and I'm enjoying it because that's why my business is successful, because I just do the things that I feel other folks have requested that I do. Again, they're high enough level where I'm like, "I know this will lead to success."

So, looking at it on a visionary perspective, I perceive this book to be a very big deal, to help people, to be a constant talking point in media, as people are constantly starting businesses, or are struggling with starting their businesses, and also a potential thing, where it will help lead to me doing speaking engagements. So, I can see it being big. Even now, as I'm talking about the book, even though there's not even a title yet, obviously when it launches, but then also a potential book tour, and things well after the months that it launches him. So, I foresee this being something that can be a huge business card for my business, for years to come. Let me quickly tell you, as well, that... So, my wife, she's super intelligent, very grounded, and very practical. She doesn't excited about things, in terms of my business, and that's good. I actually appreciate that.

Stuart Bell:
I can sympathize with that.

Justin Breen:
Yes. So, she's been excited two times since the start of this company, which was the official incorporation date was April 16th, 2017. So, the first she got excited was when I told her I was starting a business, and the second time was when I told her about this book.

Stuart Bell:
Oh, right.

Justin Breen:
That's it. That was the only two times.

Stuart Bell:
Yeah.

Justin Breen:
When I started the business, she's like, "You're going to do really well with this," and I was like, "Really?" She's like, "Yes." I'm like, "Oh, okay." So, she was right about that, and with this book she said.. Her name is Sarah by the way. She was like, "This book is going to be a very big deal for a lot of people," and I'm like, "Really?" She's like, "Yes." So, that's why I'm really excited about it.

Stuart Bell:
Right, it's nice to get that semi-impartial to the side of not getting over excited, it's good to get that feedback from someone who's in that camp, to give an indication that they're interested, and excited about it as well. It really helps with reinforcing the idea that you're onto a good thing.

Justin Breen:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, so it's nice to have that perspective. Obviously, she's my biggest fan, but she also is not a BS'er. She will tell me the truth. So, it's good.

Stuart Bell:
Right. The interest in the subject, so similar here, my wife's beliefs, as everyone knows who's listening, she's not interested at all, particularly in the business, as such. I can talk about marketing, and the technology of it until people get bored and tune out, but that's really not her bag. So, on the odd occasion that she'll get interested, and engaged, or interested in something, again, that's a impartial indicator that, okay, it's not just because we're all drinking the same Kool-Aid.

Justin Breen:
Right.

Stuart Bell:
The point that you raised there about there's ongoing opportunity, because there's an evergreen element to the nature of the book, both for yourself, and as people are listening and thinking about their individual titles, if the book isn't particularly timely for any reason, apart from the fact that you've just written it. So, it's not you're writing a book on some financial situation, or the tariffs that are going on at the moment, or anything that's timely. So, in order to capture that attention of journalists, and of media, we had a show with Jonathan Schultz, actually, well a few months ago now, and he'd got some success, he's a financial planner, written a book that had a particular hook about how small changes can lead to big changes, and then had got some success with daytime TV, and news type shows in local media. It was because they've looking for content ,that would be interesting.

So, he got some traction there. Leveraging the fact that he had written something, and he reached out to them, rather than them coming to him, and he was just trying to pitch it in the local market a little bit, and they had time to fill, so they need content that is interesting.

Justin Breen:
Of course.

Stuart Bell:
For other people who are looking to do something similar, is there anything that you can elaborate on around that what makes it interesting to journalists? So, just the fact that it's written isn't necessarily interesting of itself. If it's not timely, it's not managing another news cycle. So, anything to elaborate on that?

Justin Breen:
So, in terms of interesting, journalists have different brains. If you talk to most journalists who are hardcore folks, they're just wired differently.

Stuart Bell:
For better or worse.

Justin Breen:
Yeah, right. It is what it is. So, interesting is a very broad term, but if you're a journalist, you will look at something, and know right away whether it's total BS, or like, "Oh my God, this is an unbelievable story." So, it's hard to explain to someone who's not a journalist, but my brain will literally like... Again, I'll talk to somebody for a long time, and they'll say nothing of interest, and then they'll say something, and it'll be like, bang, that's the story right there. So, if this helps answer the question, for the most part, media doesn't care about what you do. They care about who you are. So, as a person, you need to be somewhat interesting, or do something... If your company's not interesting, if the topics not interesting, are you doing something interesting? Are you running across the United States or something, or did you survive cancer, or did you adopt five children? These are just random examples, but what about you is interesting.

My wife and I, we went out on 52 dates last year, once a week without the kids. Again, there was no intent to get media coverage at all, from that, but we got a big story in the Chicago Tribune. We were on the Today Show, a TV show called Windy City Live, did radio interviews, the cover of local newspapers, because that's interesting. It's really hard to go out without your kids once a week, when you have got children. So, try to find something about yourself that's interesting. A lot of people, they look at themselves and they're like, "I'm not that interesting," and I'm like, "I bet you are." You have to do a little digging on yourself.

Stuart Bell:
So, that's super interesting because I think, as technicians, we get so caught up in the what, rather than the why. So, I've used an example before, a slightly disproportionally large amount of books that we've helped people write come from the financial services sector, because of the big crossover that we've got with strategic coach, and they've got similarly big footprint. So, a lot of the books there, a lot of the beginning of the conversations, we'll talk to people. What they're actually talking about, because industry to industry, or niche to niche, it's all really the same thing, especially when you're dealing with a business that's just very fact based, but the difference comes within the approach. So, we'll talk to people about what differentiates the way that one person's describing an IRA, from another person. Is it the way that you do it, or is it how you do it? Do you have a framework around it that you can name and claim, that type of approach.

I must admit, we haven't really thought that much about the adding in the personal element. So, we always start with an introduction to the book, and try to get people to talk about why it's important to them, but almost as just an opening paragraph to the individualness of the content, which isn't that interesting, there's no personal interest element to it. So, adding in that personal journey, and why you've got an approach, why your approach is the approach you've got, what's led you to that point, why are you passionate about it? I'm guessing, though, that adding some of those elements is really going to help anchor some of those points. If you did, then, want to get media coverage, it's going to help reinforce that point, and just highlight even more why it's of interest to people.

Justin Breen:
You're 100% right. I think for those who follow sports writing, or sports broadcasting, I'm 42 years old, and right when I graduated college I met Skip Bayless, who at the time was the Chicago Tribune columnist. He went on to ESPN, and I think he's on Fox Sports now. So, he's a really good commentator, and he told me something that I'll never forgot. He's like, "My goal is to inform and entertain." So, a book can be very informative, that's fine, but you've got to give an article too. It can be informative, but you have to escape from the nuts and bolts as well. You have to give that personal side of things. So, to your point, the book, I don't want it to be this nuts and bolts boring read like, "Oh, here are some lessons I learned," yada yada. It's like, "Well, who are the people that taught me this, and how did I implement it, and why on my personal journey was it so important that now this relates to my family, and more free time, and all that stuff too," because it's great that I've built this successful business, but what is it?

What does it mean? How does it help me, and how can it help you? I have met a lot of entrepreneurs who are very, very wealthy, and I always ask them, "So, do you spend time with your family, your friends?" Most of them do, but there are some that they're like, "Yeah, my regret is that I didn't spend enough time with my wife, or my kids, or never had kids." You can just see and tell from how they talk, the tone or inflection, the shadiness in that. These are people that are very wealthy in terms of financial, but you see how it impacted them personally. Frankly, for me, that's not worth it. I'd rather make a lot less money, and spend way more time with my family than anything. But the other thing is you can, you can have both. This company has achieved financial dreams that were never attainable in corporate, and I work less and spend more time with my family. So, it's a win, win, win, win.

Stuart Bell:
I think that's the thing, isn't it? Remembering there is that balance, and there's the opportunity. So, the same from the lifestyle point of view and the quality of life, the same with the book and the message that's in there. We wouldn't recommend writing a story that was just 100% about a personal journey, because without the celebrity element-

Justin Breen:
Right, who cares?

Stuart Bell:
Yeah, exactly. Who cares? But-

Justin Breen:
You need something to base it on.

Stuart Bell:
Right. Yeah, Yeah, exactly. What are people getting out of it, and why do they care? But to be able to amplify, and illustrate it with personal stories, that's really the thing that can take it to the next level. Completely disconnected example, but it reminds me of even just last night, Lucy was looking for some Christmas decorations in a cupboard, and in the cupboard was an old photo album from when we were back in college, 20 something years ago. Aubrey picked up and looked at, and was flicking through the pictures. Then, I'd go into the kitchen, and was looking through too, and it was interesting, because those were photographs taken from a point in time that we were both in college in the same little town, so there were things that were common to both of us, although we didn't know each other all the way through. We only met in last year.

What was way more interesting, versus way less interesting was probably 60% of the photographs were of things, of landscapes, or sceneries, or signs, or things. There was an element of interest there because it was the town that we both went to college in, but way more interesting were the pictures of the people. Even though I only knew a third of the people who were photographed, because the other third were in the group of people I didn't know, but even so, those people, and what those people's relationships to Lucy was, and how they fitted in the mix, and how come it was that just coincidentally my path never crossed with them. It was those, the personal things, that were way more interesting than just the factual, here's the reminiscence about a sign, or a mountain, or a lake, or whatever it was.

Justin Breen:
Okay.

Stuart Bell:
Yeah, it's really that personal connection. It's really got me thinking the opportunity that we've got, for us, as we're helping people to write, the process, as you know, and as the people that listen know, it's very audio based, oral based, we work on an outline, and then we call the content through asking questions. So, even as we're talking, I'm thinking about how we can work with Christie, who does most of the recordings, to amplify those questions, and move the framework slightly from following up with more questions, drilling into more details, but instead of doing that, following up with more details to get the softer edges of the story to come. Almost reminds me as well, there's a Tony Robbins quote I remember from years ago. I remember it because I bought the tee shirt. It says something like, this is a terrible story now, because I can't remember exactly what the quote was. It's just gone from my head, but it was something to do with emotion. Things are way more rooted when there's an emotional element connected to it, rather than just a factual element.

Justin Breen:
Of course.

Stuart Bell:
Looking at that, then, from your books. So, of the 30 stories, the 30 points that will be in the book, there's going to be some of them that have got very strong emotional stories, and some of them personal stories, and some of them that have got less so.

Justin Breen:
Correct.

Stuart Bell:
So, thinking second nature will come to you, but anyone who's listening to this and are thinking to themselves like, "Okay, I've gotten that book now about what the subject is. I need to add some personal, some emotion to it, and some background, and some story." Is there a line between what comes naturally, and what very much comes across as forced? If someone's listening and thinking, "okay, I can think of the five things. Three of them swim to mind easily, but two of them I'd really be fighting for, to elaborate on it at all." Is it worth... Where's the line at which you should stop.

Justin Breen:
No. The answer is no. Less is more.

Stuart Bell:
Don't force it, right. Okay.

Justin Breen:
Don't force it, because that'll come through.

Stuart Bell:
Right.

Justin Breen:
I don't anticipate my book being longer than a hundred pages because... So, I've started working on the prologue. I wrote it in 15 minutes, and it's maybe a thousand words. I can write a thousand words in 15 minutes. That's not a big deal, but my point is, like I said before, it was in my head anyway. There's a couple powerful things in there, but it's boom, boom, boom. Get to the point, get to the point, because one, most of the people who I'm trying to appeal to in this story, they're entrepreneurs, they're hopeful entrepreneurs. Those kinds of folks, visionaries, they don't have time to read more than a hundred pages. They just want the good stuff, the meat of it, and they don't care about the other stuff. So, less is more.

Stuart Bell:
Right. That I think is worth hammering home a little bit, because it's so easy, especially when you start thinking about the less factual, maybe the softer side of the story, to really start elaborating, and going deep, and turning it into a piece of prose, and a love story that you're writing. That balance of adding in some interest in some personal elements, but still keeping it concise, and to the point, and punchy, really makes such a difference. I'm so glad that you were talking about that a hundred pages or so as a threshold. We sometimes think about it, as we've talked about before... The home is in Philadelphia and the offices in Florida, so that flight up and down is about two and a half hours each way, by the time you're taken off in the seatbelt, light's gone off. So, that two and a half hour timeframe, to be able to read something in that space, to drink a cup of coffee, or whatever is served, and look out the window for a little bit, and think about what you're reading.

That tends to correlate to about the same. It's about an hour and a half's worth of recording, and the way that we record it, assuming it's relatively concise and punchy. It's about somewhere between 60 to 100 pages, of the five by eight layout that we've got. It's all positioned. It's so interesting that it's all positioned about the same time. It's this thing that's consumable in one go. We're not expecting people to necessarily put it down and come back to it too many times, it's more, "Here's the content, here's where you can get from it, and here's the next step. Here's how you can take this and do something more."

Justin Breen:
That's correct.

Stuart Bell:
Yeah.

Justin Breen:
I would be surprised... Although this book will be very powerful to the right group of people, but I'm still guessing most people will just scan it, and find the chapters that they want to look at. That's fine. It doesn't matter to me. I'm just genuinely trying to help people, just because starting a business from nothing, dude. Oh my God, "Oh, you're doing so well," but it is really, really, really, really, really, really hard. It will take you to places. That's the other thing, I'm going to be talking about the good, and the bad, in this. Most of the people don't ever want to talk about the bad, but if I'm going to be talking about that. People need to know that part of it, because entrepreneurship can really do some serious damage to people, if they're not ready for it, or they don't understand the ups and the downs. People need to know that, dude.

Stuart Bell:
Yeah, and it's lonely as well, isn't it? I think although there's a bigger-

Justin Breen:
Oh, horribly lonely. Horribly.

Stuart Bell:
Yeah, there's a much bigger audience now than they were 10 years ago, but even so, it's an audience of... I sometimes think of it as lobsters in the pot at the restaurant. They might be a tank full of lobsters, where's everyone's-

Justin Breen:
Oh, my god. That's great

Stuart Bell:
-hoping the bad things happen to someone else, not to them. In the nicest possible way. You were talking there about the nature of it, is punchy. We talk a lot about that as well, and this is the beginning of a conversation that we'll have with people, and they can follow the journey elsewhere. So, in terms of media, and exposure, and getting more bang for the buck, than just the book itself, are there many pointers that you've got for people, of how they can engage with media in a way that does lead people elsewhere? So, rather than a story that just talks about the thing, and then ends and cuts and goes onto the next segment, is there any pointers you've got of how to keep that conversation going, but using media?

Justin Breen:
Yep. So, this is my advice for that. I have numerous clients that they get on a radio interview, or they get on a TV interview, and they do a really good job, and they're just super professional, they look good on camera, or in the studio, and they don't mumble or stumble during their answers. What happens is media invites them back in two or three months. So, that's the way to do it. Get these interviews, and then do a good job. As you said before, media is looking to fill time many times, or someone will cancel, and they're like, "Oh, we need to find a guest," and, "Oh, that person did a great job three months ago. Let's get her or him back on the air." So, that's the way of keeping things going. Just do a really good job when you're getting these interviews done.

Then, also post things on social media, especially LinkedIn. LinkedIn, for me, has been a goldmine, and then it just keeps you at the top of people's heads, when they see your posts. That's the way to, every now and then, just remind people, "Hey, I'm out here, I'm doing cool things."

Stuart Bell:
That's actually a great point, as well. We probably don't do enough of a job on our end of talking to people about social and the opportunities that they've got to leverage the things that they do a little bit more. I think the point that you made before about journalists, or people as a whole, aren't so much concerned about the what, but the who. There is a certain amount of celebrity, or externally validated credibility, that comes from appearing in media, in any form. So, the opportunity-

Justin Breen:
Oh, of course.

Stuart Bell:
-back to it, is a great opportunity to leverage it, far beyond the end of the interview itself.

Justin Breen:
Yep. So, people hire my firm for two reasons. One to grow business right away, and that anecdotally almost always happens, but two, and what I think is more important, is that it increases your validity and credibility when people Google your name, or your business, and you see them in all these very reputable publications. That's the long play, and that doesn't go away. Those links don't go away.

Stuart Bell:
Yeah.

Justin Breen:
You can use those for ever on your website, as seen on CNBC, or on this podcast, or whatever. That's the beauty of reputable media, not the pay for play nonsense. Actual media. The beauty, too, is that there's more reputable media than ever before. This has never been better for me just because as some newspapers are struggling, other things like that, there's all these new types of media opportunities that are reputable, are legitimate, and are very interesting, that didn't exist even three or four years ago. My clients love being on those avenues.

Stuart Bell:
I guess it's so easy to assume that things are more difficult now, because the playing field is more crowded, and more people are trying to do this, but the reality is that although the numbers are higher, the people who are doing it in the right way, and in a beneficial way, are still few and far between. So, if you do take the extra time to put the effort into that channel, that's where it really pays off. I guess that's where your clients see even a greater payoff, by using an expert like you, because you can cut to the chase.

Justin Breen:
That's correct.

Stuart Bell:
There is more in terms of quantity, but the quality is the same as it was before, and being able to tell the difference is a real game changer.

Justin Breen:
That's correct. Yep.

Stuart Bell:
Yeah. That leads onto our... I guess we have to approaching the 40, 45 minutes, or so. So-

Justin Breen:
No kidding? Wow, that went fast

Stuart Bell:
I know right. It's crazy, isn't it? We should definitely redo this again, and follow up after the books out, because then we can talk about the back end of the journey, and close the loop for people.

Justin Breen:
Okay.

Stuart Bell:
In the meantime though, if people want to learn more about what you do, and the services that the company provide, where's a good place for them to head across to?

Justin Breen:
Sure. So, my website is BrEpicllc.com. So, that's B as in boy, R, E, P as in pony, I, C as in Cobra, llc.com. BrEpicllc.com. I've got all sorts of fun things on that site.

Stuart Bell:
Fantastic. I'll be sure to link to that in the show notes as well. So, if people didn't get a chance to take that note, just head over to the website in the podcast episode, and there'll be a link to Justin's stuff in the show notes there. I was just on the site earlier on today, and it's always interesting to see sites that really just cut to the chase, and deliver some of the information, where other ones where you've got a hunt around for it. So, yeah.

Justin Breen:
Well, one of the things that I'm writing about in the book is that people come up to me, and they go, "What is your PR firm do?" I go, "Well, we write stories and get you in media. That's it." They're like, "Wow, that's amazing. I talked to these other PR firms, and they can't answer that question, "What do you do?"" I go, "I know I've been dealing with that nonsense for 20 years." So this is what I do. You want to do it? Great. If not, see you later. I don't care.

Stuart Bell:
Well, that's such a great... Even now, we'll certainly wrap up, but let's finish on that point, because that's well worth resonating with, or diving into for a second. That, having the elevator pitch, for want of a better term, that sentence that really encapsulates exactly what you do. Each of the elements... So, for the business, if people ask about the business, for the book, if people ask about the book, just thinking about that core sentence, and then being able to articulate it in a way that people can understand-

Justin Breen:
That's it.

Stuart Bell:
Well-worth the effort, just in that.

Justin Breen:
Like a third grader. Yep.

Stuart Bell:
Right, right.

Justin Breen:
Explain it like you're talking to a third grader.

Stuart Bell:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, fantastic.

Justin Breen:
Cool.

Stuart Bell:
Okay, well I will call it, otherwise we'll be here for another 45 minutes, but let's definitely pencil in another show for, like I said, it'll be the beginning of next year now, because we're December already, but I look forward to catching up again. Thanks again for your time, Justin, and as I said, we'll have show notes on this episode with links to all of Justin's stuff. So, head over to 90minutebooks.com, or if you're taking a note, then it's B-R-E-P-I-C-L-L-C.com, BrEpic, and see more about what Justin does. So, thanks again Justin.

Justin Breen:
Thanks dude. Appreciate it.

Stuart Bell:
Okay, speak soon.

Stuart Bell:
And there we have it, another fantastic episode. So great to catch up with Justin. We really resonated the first time we were speaking on the phone. Spoken a few times since then, it was really great to get the opportunity to share his background with you. As you see, I mentioned at the beginning that the idea of this hook, and the personal story, the personal connection, is super important to build into the framework of the book that you're creating. It's that piece that adds to the narrative flow, and keeps people engaged. So, not that we're suggesting it turns into an entirely personal story, but it's relatively straightforward and definitely something to remember as we talk about one of the book blueprint mindsets, that value driven content. It's very easy to then remember to add in some personal elements into those stories, just to illustrate, and amplify a little bit more.

So, if you want to take the journey a bit further, then I highly recommend heading over to bookblueprintscore.com, and then you can score your book idea against the eight book blueprint mindsets that we have. One of those is talking about value driven content, and how you can build in, and a reminder from this episode is to build in some stories. Show note, as always, of course on the website. So, 90minutebooks.com/podcast, and this is episode 89. Of course, as soon as you're ready to get started, we're here to help you and guide you through, and we can certainly give some advice and guidance on dialing in the content, and talking about the ways engaging people a little bit more, or in the context of leading to an outcome of more business. So, head over 90minutebooks.com, and then follow the get started links, and we'll be here waiting to help you get your book out. So, with that, have a great week and I'll catch you next time.