Today on the Book More Show we're talking about some different types of books than usual.

This morning I grabbed a copy of a book we recently completed and was surprised to be reading about their company culture rather than the strategy I was expecting.

I so often find myself in a lead generation conversation, it's easy to forget that about 30% of the books we help create fall into this ‘other’ category, so today we're going deeper into some of these other book types.

Whether your book is for lead generation or about your company culture, your personal legacy, or stories from your customers, personal messages and real accounts are great at breaking through & resonating with people.

The aim of everything we encourage you to do is to increase the amount people know, like and trust you, and this applies just as much to staff, family or investors as it does to potential customers.

This is a great call if you have those relationships, even if it's only with a handful of people, because sharing your story in the pages a book moves a conversation in a way that's difficult to replicate in any other form.

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Transcript: Book More Show 076

Stuart: Hey, everyone. Welcome to another episode of the Book More Show, Stuart here with Betsy. Betsy Vaughn, how's it going?

Betsey: Super great. Wonderful. How are you?

Stuart: Good. Thank you. Super great and wonderful.

Betsey: Yeah.

Stuart: That's a good end to the week.

Betsey: I couldn't remember what day it was actually, because I would have said, happy. Then all of I stopped and went, "I don't even know what day it is." So ...

Stuart: Yeah, I flew down yesterday and this is just a short trip I just needed to come in for a meeting last night and today so I'm going back again in the morning and then back down next week. So I'm completely discombobulated on the day of the week.

Betsey: Yeah, I get it, I get it. What are we gonna talk about today?

Stuart: So, today, we are gonna dive in and look at a slightly different type of book than the ones we usually talk about. So, I grabbed a book that I've been meaning to read for a couple of weeks, and I've actually taken it back and forth home, for the last couple of trips so. Kind of over breakfast this morning I grabbed it and I thought well I am definitely going to read this now because I knew that I wanted to. But it actually turned out to be something completely different than I was expecting. I was expecting some lead generation type book, which is what we often talk about, but what it turned out to be was more of a cultural book about the organization. We've had over the years we've had several of these.

I mean the ones that spring to mind we've probably mentioned them a couple of times on the show before. Robin Estevez has got Stories from Behind The Counter, a book about the organization going from a small bodega that the parents owned I think they've got six or seven full time stores up in New York. So, stories about the culture there. There's Kevin Craig who we've definitely mentioned before because of the unexpected success and kind of spin off coaching career that he's really amplified based on his book and his book was more about his background and some starting questions that he was able to answer in his business and the people then subsequently asked him for over and over again.

And then this book here, Culture Shock, is more for employees of the organization. So, coming in and talking about how to thrive in your organization, what the corporate values are, what the culture of the organization is, why they're a little different. So, as I was looking at it, it seemed like a good time to jump on and run through that type because, well I don't know, I should ask you. When you're talking to people how often do people come with that type of idea?

Betsey: You know, it's interesting because had you not said, oh look, let's talk about this, the minute we started talking about it and thinking about talking about it some popped in my mind. People doing that internal kind of employee hand but more of a guide. You know, here's the new employee kind of thing. And like you said about our culture, this is what we do, this is how we do things, this is how we expect it. We did another one, and I'm kind of going through the gallery right now to hopefully trigger something in my mind to remember. But it was one of our financial guides, and it was sort of like, hey, you're new to not just our company but new to the entire industry and so these are some expectations. Because I was you once and this what you need to know, you know?

Stuart: Yeah.

Betsey: I mean how often does…

Stuart: Well, I wish someone would have told me.

Betsey: Yeah, absolutely.

Stuart: Yeah, you can imagine being the person on the receiving end of it as well. I mean it's something that encapsulates all the things that are important enough for the business owners to write down even not just getting the view on the culture but getting it straight from the horse’s mouth. What out of all the cultural elements what are the important ones I felt the need to actually get down in writing here and give to you. It's really kind of an x-ray into the owner's mind.

Betsey: It is, and you know where it's different, excuse me, where it's different from like the employee handbook or the company handbook or guide what have you is I remember in one of these books and maybe even in this other one that I'm looking for they were very true stories. Like, this is what happened to me and that's far more interesting to read, you know? Than that typical here you've got to read this 60 page manual on the company. Obviously that was half their benefits as well but it's kind of like they put real life stories in place.

Stuart: When I think about the books I read, these things I don't really find…

Betsey: You get to read books?

Stuart: Well, to be fair I don't read that many. I used to have an Audible subscription so I'd listen to them a lot more but kind of podcasts kind of supplemented audiobooks. But even then when I think back to the books I am simply gravitating toward it's more biographies and real life stories. For the exact same reason you said, it's more engaging.

Betsey: Absolutely, yeah.

Stuart: Which one is in the UK, the not campsite but like a mobile park across there has a different meaning than a mobile home park across here. But, there was one from the UK then which was very much cultural based in the story about how the organization came up. There was Chris Hill wrote one with an organization.

Betsey: Yeah.

Stuart: They worked with pretty closely talking about their story.

Betsey: Hey, that's really a great book. I mean I enjoyed it, that was one of the first books that I didn't work on it but I read it when I first came on board and I just that's a feel good book too, you know? Just people looking for something from a culture standpoint and how he does things and yeah I enjoyed that.

Stuart: That book was interesting because Chris his company is the organization that sets up all the volunteerism of the volunteer based rewards program so rather than taking the team to Vegas to lose money at the tables they'll go away and build a school or do community central volunteer type projects. So Chris actually owns that company but the guys that they worked with to create the book was one of their clients. And the reason that they wanted to write it was because their story, the client's story, really encapsulated the values that the organization got from going on volunteer based rewards trips rather than just vacation type reward trips. So that's an interesting one for as you listen to this to think about.

It's not even, like we said with the lead gen books it doesn't necessarily have to be your specific story or your specific idea or your specific position that you're putting down there. But you're encapsulating the details or the ideas. You're bringing them together into one place that can help someone move their journey forward. The same with this, the story that's being told if you have a feel for wanting to share a story that is more emotionally compelling or has more of a cultural component it doesn't necessarily have to be entirely of your own thing.

The story can be made with someone else's story it's if there's an opportunity to team up or join venture or amplify someone else's story through a project that you want to initiate yourself. That's a fantastic way of capturing those details. And think about some popular kinds of entrepreneurial type books and conversations with billionaires is a huge book that was around in the, I want to say, maybe late '80s early '90s maybe time. I might be getting confused on the time but that book was entirely written based on conversations with other people. So, leveraging someone else's, the stories and examples that someone else have, we're bringing them together into a framework, into a narrative that you want to orchestrate is another great way of just a very slight variation on this type of thing that we're talking about.

I think we're spending so much time talking about lead generation books because that is a lot of the focus of what we do. But it's definitely the 60 to 70%.

Betsey: Of course, yeah.

Stuart: And the other 30 to 40% is made up of all of these different types.

Betsey: Yeah, and it's, I mean from our standpoint, it's a nice change. But also I think sometimes people associate us just with those lead generation books and we know that we've done so many more other things. These kinds of books, the culture books, legacy books, and stuff but these are kind of a nice change up for us. You know?

Stuart: Yeah.

Betsey: For me the person who reads all the books wouldn't read the author's.

Stuart: Right.

Betsey: It's kind of a nice change, you know, so.

Stuart: And a little more engaging than talking about just financial-

Betsey: Yeah.

Stuart: Choosing different.

Betsey: Right, we're grateful for our financial books but.

Stuart: Right.

Betsey: Bread and butter, yeah exactly.

Stuart: Yeah we'll include a few more anecdotes not just facts maybe.

Betsey: Exactly.

Stuart: Come to you in a nice blend too.

Betsey: But you know that is, okay, even in a lead generation book, making it, I'm kind of going off somewhere else and we may talk about this another time but we always say, and I say, and content when we're talking to people, if you can use not just an example but like a story a real life story in the book it makes you want to continue reading. You know? You're hearing about someone's real stories thing that happened to them. Yes from an employee standpoint it's I think so beneficial but I think people also just they're easier to read when you have some stuff that are just a little more.

Stuart: And we talk all the time about the whole purpose of books in a funnel, whatever that funnel is, is being part of the process to get people to know, like, and trust you to the point that they want to take the next step with you. Whether that's becoming an employee or becoming an engaged employee or being a customer or a client. Having something that bridges that gap brings out your human side, gets people speaking.

Betsey: Yes.

Stuart: You create more of a connection, think about some of the complete change of subject or channel, but think about some of the popular YouTube channels that are out there. A lot of those are the vlog type channels where the majority of the compelling content is the fact that people know and understand the person that is on the other end of the camera. I mean obviously easier to do that in video 'cause it's very kind of visceral and in your face. But even when you think about podcasts, I mentioned that I some type ago kind of stopped listening to audiobooks just because podcasts had taken them over. The majority of podcasts that I listen to are live technology ones or political ones or fitness ones. And across all of those three genres it's almost less about the subject and more about the individuals.

Betsey: Absolutely.

Stuart: You've got a connection with who are on the show.

Betsey: Yeah, that is so, I mean I was listening, you were saying that you're listening to like grown up podcasts and I love that. And I'm listening to like fluffy feel good nonsense because when I need to zone out that's what I do, I listen to nonsense podcasts. But I feel like there is that connection you know? And yes there's always something of benefit in there. You know I walk away with something but it is true it's almost like I'm going to listen to my friend, you know, today.

Stuart: Right.

Betsey: Like you do, you have that, because there's going to be some fun story that they're going to tell and I mean hopefully I'll learn something from it but yeah so I've taken on a lot of podcasts. I have a whole list and there are some grown up things in there that I should listen to, you know, but sometimes you just need to veg out and zone out.

Stuart: Yeah, I mean I think the subject of the ones I listen to might sound more grown up but I don't know that the content is. Just as well with those.

Betsey: Right.

Stuart: That anecdote and the personal connection thing let's drill into that a little more then, because that is a good point there that I didn't necessarily think about as we were talking about what to talk about on the show. I was running through on the fly on the way down yesterday I was running through an outline for another 90-Minute Books that we're going to be releasing shortly, it's industry specific and one of the examples, so the book is based on the book leap and framework, the 8 mind steps to create thing, the best opportunity in a book format. And the content side of things, the value driven content mindset stage talks about making sure that it's you and the one question that the book is about as completely as possible, don't hold anything back, and really make a connection.

And that making the connection, one of the word points that I've got to, that I had included to drill a little deeper on is this anecdote and example element. So, having personal connections, personal stories, having things that illustrate the example in a real world way is beneficial for two reasons. One, it creates that connection but two and the frame in which I was talking about mainly was the limiting the scope.

So it's always a problem or always a challenge in a book to write something that is specific enough to be useful without overly caveat-ing it or trying to come up with a water tight example that illustrates absolutely every point that you're trying to make because otherwise you're going to end up with a hundred pages just trying to highlight one particular view point buried in a chapter somewhere. A great way of illustrating it without needing to get a hundred percent of the way there. Because if you tell it in a story particularly if it's a real story and not just an illustration when you're telling a story people don't expect that's going to be the perfect analogy because you're retelling what actually happened and obviously it's not going to be perfectly matched to a point that you're trying to make.

So, it gives you an amount of flexibility and leeway to make a point and reinforce it but without worrying about being 100% true to the point or accurate to the point that you're trying to make.

Betsey: Right.

Stuart: Because everyone understand that this is a story and an illustration not the thing completely water tight and with every element covered. So I think including real life stories really has that benefit in addition to making that personal connection.

Betsey: Absolutely, I agree with that. I think what you said about being actual, 'cause you know, sometimes we're so concerned with everything being perfect and said just right, maybe factual. You know, has everything been said, all the t's crossed, the i's dotted.

Stuart: Right.

Betsey: The story it is it sort of breaks down that formal thing I guess, you know, that formality and people can kind of get into it and they don't have to worry about if their stories are relating as it happened. You know, or close to it, and I think it's definitely beneficial to the books and to the reader as well.

Stuart: A few of the podcasts that I listen to, one in particular, a lot of the, so, three guys talking about tech subjects all of them to a certain degree write for tech publications either magazines or websites and there's something that they've all said at various different times is that the podcast medium the fact that it's a conversation does give them that flexibility that no one expects it to be, the expectations are different. No one expects it to be absolutely researched and you're going away and collecting all the details and then coming back and giving a factual account of something that has been double checked five times, if you can double check something five times.

Betsey: Right.

Stuart: Anyway, so, it gives them an amount of flexibility and even though there is an expectation that the written word on a page in a book is more accurate I think re-telling a story within that changes people's context of how they're reading it. So, just as you said, it's easier and a little less formal because people have those different expectations.

Betsey: Absolutely, yeah.

Stuart: We've jumped back into leap gen type books, let's go back to the culture type books.

Betsey: Yeah.

Stuart: The set-up then, the reason, the job of work for doing them, want to explore that a little more? Because if it's something that as you're listening to this it's resonating you've kind of got an idea of that you might want to share your story a little more but in terms of thinking about how it fits into the bigger picture. There are a couple of ways that it really are beneficial, not just for the sake of creating it, for the sake of it being created. But actually lead toward a specific outcome.

So the first thing is the, or the first way is kind of like some of the examples we used before, it's a great way of onboarding people and giving them the insights into the things that are really important. The nuts and bolts of how to do something, or the employee handbook to tick their contractual boxes, but it's the soft side of the organization and where it sets up.

The other element or the other job of work that always spring to mind is with customers as well. So, in a real world example I can think of quite a few organizations although interestingly they're often restaurants that have created books like this, which often then turn into recipe books or there's a recipe element of it as well. But it's a lot about the founder's story so there's a couple restaurant chains in the UK, there's Wagamama and Carluccio's are the two that spring to mind. By the way if you're ever in London and you want some great kind of Asian type food go to Wagamama's because it's really good. I think there's one in New York as well.

Betsey: Thank you.

Stuart: Just a side tip.

Betsey: Just a side tip.

Stuart: Oh actually there's another one as well, which is more of a street food type place called Wahaca. If you ever go to London or next time you visit London on the south bank by the Royal Festival Hall there's a lot of restaurants down there and Wahaca and Wagamama's are both down there. So, but both of those places have really good books that, it's really good, I think when we're recording this it's 12:23 when we're recording this so maybe a tip going forward is to not record at lunch time because my stomach is overriding my mind. Yeah, so, back on track, both of those organizations, or all three of those organizations, have written something which is founder based stories leading into recipe type books and that type of thing.

But the ability to share something with a larger customer base particularly if your organization has, I don't want to say any kind of customer base but if there's definitely, and I don't really want to tie into brand either or brand loyalty or that type of thing because it's slightly different than that. It's more kind of like brand family if you wanted a better term.

If your engagement with the customer is less transactional and more relationship building then this is a great opportunity to amplify that a little more and as far as the job of work goes then there's not only the amplification of the individual who's reading it of the customer that you're trying to build a relationship with. But there's the opportunity to use that as a referral and recommendation type tool by sewing the seeds in the book or in the context in which you deliver the book to the person. That this is something that should be shared with someone else or we're bringing together a lot of customer stories that have come from referrals and testimonials and things that other people have been saying to kind of precede the expectation, precede the expectations that this is something that they could do as well.

So, the job of work of thinking about that book in a funnel which is more on the referrals based side of things is another great way to leverage and amplify and get that message out there. Not only if I want the culture in the organization is but what the culture of our customer base is. Our customers typically refer, they typically write testimonials, they typically want to talk about our organization because we're building this family and here's lots of stories about why that reinforced it. Now that's obviously not something that you can make up it's very difficult to create something that is completely false that really backs up that message. But, if your organization does have that, even if it's at a small level, but if that kind of customer family based sentiment resonates then bringing it together into the pages of the book is a great way of kind of capturing that in one place.

And then you can do things like there's that physical gift giving type approach of a book is a thing an artifact that you give to someone and it has more resonance than a digital file or an email or just saying thank you to someone.

Betsey: Oh, yeah.

Stuart: Writing a personalized note in the front cover of a book that talks about how important customers are the amplification effect there is just huge.

Betsey: Oh, of course, yeah.

Stuart: Reinforces the relationship element.

Betsey: Very true, yeah.

Stuart: The ones that we've got, the ones that we've got and we've done so far. So a couple of examples that spring to mind, Robin's talking about their story and how the stores came to be in place. The culture shock book that we were talking about before very much aimed at staff and this is why our organization is different. There was one that we were looking at just before we started this show that's just about to completed which is the, what was it called, the California cannabis business?

Betsey: Yeah, the cannabis business owners guide to employees. Yeah.

Stuart: Right.

Betsey: About the cannabis industry in California. And that's more like that's for anybody who's wanting to start up in the cannabis industry, you know? So it's not just going to be for one organization, I think it's fantastic. Because it's a relatively new industry and anybody who's looking at getting into that industry this is a great, great, guide. I've kind of read through it a little and it's really a great guide to how to get from point A to point B in the industry. It's industry specific, first of all, because it's just specifically about California an employee guide to starting up that business. But I think it's so needed, it's going to eventually, I think we'll see it in other states. You know him doing something similar with this.

Stuart: Yeah. And now onto Jonathan Vane, that is because that's the business they helped those types of organizations.

Betsey: Right.

Stuart: You can imagine from the business owner's point of view. So, they're getting to the business, the nature of that business because of the baggage that comes along with it, and not only the fact that it's new and the regulations are changing and it's quite a fast moving field. But also the kind of social baggage and employee stereotypes that might go along with the people who work in that industry.

Betsey: Right.

Stuart: You can imagine a business owner there writing a book that is the guide to working at my organization or this organization. So, not generic but very specific and talking about cultural elements like we work in this industry but don't expect you to be stoned on the job. Don't expect you to be having a side business on your own. Taking a look at the steps necessary to reinforce that professional element of it, which for any other industry might be less of an issue because it doesn't come with that baggage. It doesn't come with the stereotypes around it but writing a book which isn't so much of an employee guide as in here are the terms and conditions but it's the employee guide to the softer side of it, the cultural side of it, the things that are important that aren't necessarily written on a piece of paper.

That is an example of this type of book that immediately leaps out because it is something different it's something relativity new, it's maybe something where the softer side of things, the less specific side of things do need to be overcome because of the baggage that surround it. So that would be a fantastic opportunity to kind of merge these ideas together and think about the job of work of the book is to dial in these specific things.

And the books that we're talking about is the exact same as the leap gen ones, I mean this isn't, we're not talking about trying to get on a New York Times bestseller list, we're not talking about investing thirty grand into a project that takes eight months to complete. We're talking about executing something for a couple of grand that takes at tops a couple of months to get done. And the return on investment, I mean the headache of finding staff and employing and the cost associated with that you can burn tens of thousands very quickly.

Betsey: Oh, yeah.

Stuart: Just by churning three or four staff. So, even if this book was something that was written for five people the reality is the fact that it is printed in pages, it is a book, it gives it more credibility and standing than just giving them a PDF or expecting them to read a document on the web about something. So the importance of it is reinforced. The fact that the business owner is giving them something that has been written it's a published book that's bound and has a barcode on the back of it. It looks more important so carries more weight. It sets the expectation that the organization's more professional because they're going the extra step to do these things that other organizations wouldn't do. Either because they didn't want to or they didn't listen to this podcast so they didn't know that they could do it.

Betsey: Right, right.

Stuart: But when you think about the job of work is employee retention and good employee retention then I mean that's ticking a huge box and moving that goal forward in a significant way by creating something that from a purely numbers point of view I mean we wouldn't typically talk about writing a book that would just have an audience of five people.

Betsey: Right.

Stuart: But this job of work it means that it's for some people it will be a great way of achieving it. And I think that we don't typically talk about creating a book that's got an audience of five people but that bridges into a slight other topic which is the family legacy type books.

Betsey: Yeah.

Stuart: So again that's another kind of subgenre of ones that we've written several examples of.

Betsey: We have.

Stuart: We don't talk about them very much 'cause they're not promotable ones, they're not ones that we share but the type of book is where someone who is the head of the family if you wanted a better term wants to communicate their story because they want to make sure that the generations to come understand where the family's come from. Typically, that's from a financial legacy perspective, that's usually where the conversation comes from so where the wealth of the family is generated in one generation but then being passed down to another and they want to share that message to kind of reinforce, hey, we weren't born with this. It came from hard work.

Betsey: This is what we did, yeah, yeah, exactly.

Stuart: Yeah.

Betsey: You're benefiting from our hard work too, yeah.

Stuart: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then using it as a start to a conversation 'cause often times it's difficult for families to talk about that type of thing. They're using the book as the jumping off point for a conversation and really that's the job of work. The job of work is getting to the point where they can have a conversation about things to kind of set the tone or make arrangements or have agreements before, well really before someone dies.

Betsey: Right, right, right. Kind of tough to say it but, yeah.

Stuart: Trying to be soft about saying it.

Betsey: Yeah.

Stuart: Yeah, but having it-

Betsey: I mean interesting it does take something, it's a soft way to approach it too, hey, this is what I've done, this is this book, and this is sort of why I've done it. Because hey, grandad is not going to be here forever, you know?

Stuart: Yeah.

Betsey: And then it kind of opens the door to other things and that actually happened with one of our books. I remember, like, and I won't name names but he said, “we've had more conversations,” and this is somebody who had an illness. And he said it's really opened a whole conversation and you know about what's next. And what I love about it and 'cause the people who have done these books obviously they have a history, they had a business for a significant amount of time, and they're older people.

They're a different generation and I have this fear that these young kids coming up now, and now I'm going to start sounding old. Everything they have is saved on social media, there's not a photo book, and even me and my kid are in their early 20s like when I stop putting photos and going and printing them out and putting them. There's not even that kind of stuff. So, everything, if they could go back in 20, 30 years and go through all my social media they'd be able to pinpoint what I had done, I guess. You know? Okay, well she traveled, and she ate at this restaurant, and she you know whatever. But, there's not that solid-

Stuart: There's a seemed lack of permanence about it, isn't there?

Betsey: Absolutely, yeah.

Stuart: Well there was a MySpace, talking about tech podcasts I'm listening to, there was one of the new stories from last week. MySpace admitted that they'd lost all files from something like, these details aren't going to be correct, but something like '98 through to 2004. They were migrating some servers and the data was just gone, so for a couple of months they were saying there's a problem we're restoring bare with us but they finally admitted last week that information is gone completely. So the example they were given there is back in the hay days of MySpace there were a number of bands where the only place where some of their music will exist is on something that has now disappeared.

Betsey: Wow.

Stuart: Because of a technical glitch. So, a bit of a side there, but take it at point exactly that there isn't the same level of documentation of things as perhaps there was in the past. So this is a great opportunity to take the time just to make sure that some words, and your words, it's not that this is-

Betsey: Your words.

Stuart: Yeah, this isn't an archivist going back through and trying to piece together the various pieces of what might have happened in Betsey's life. This is your words actually documenting at least your view of what did happen.

Betsey: And it's history but like the sappy side of me is like what a gift, what a gift that you're giving to your grandchildren or your great-grandchildren that you've never met. You know, they can go through that and they have such a gift to know where their grandfather or great-grandfather started and how it all began and reading about his life and how he created what he did create, or what have you. That's the sappy side of me that loves things like that, you know, so it is it's historical and there's a purpose to it but yeah it's also a great thing to do for your family.

Stuart: Yeah, and you can imagine, so, again we're coming back to kind of what the, on a couple of examples, what the job of work is, why you would want to do this. But, I mean a perfectly valid job of work is just I want to capture these details it doesn't have to do anything else. It's just this is an opportunity to at a point in time to answer these questions and have it documented in a way that the person whose stories they are can confirm that's an accurate representation and get it kind of printed on a page for the rest of the family to see going forwards.

Even then I think there's the opportunity to going back to Chris' example and they orchestrated the book but it was someone else's story that they were illustrating. The same applies to this, I'm pretty sure we've had one or two examples like this where it's actually been the children or grandchildren that have wanted to have these stories captured. But then the interviews as part of the process has been done with the older family member and the aim then, well actually didn't we have, this is a little sad but didn't we have a story recently where we were rushing to try to get this done?

Betsey: Yeah.

Stuart: I think there's been two.

Betsey: Yeah.

Stuart: It's funny 'cause we're up at 500 or so books now so it's always funny that those same hundred or so are kind of front and center in mind.

Betsey: Right, right.

Stuart: But then when you start diving into your subjects and start going deeper all the other ones that are below the surface that you forget about because they just passed through the system and they're kind of just one of the 500 that it's not until you start talking about it that they come up.

But, we've got two examples, and you were much closer to this than I was but one of them was an example where just as I was describing then, I think it was the son was trying to get the story from the parent before the parent, they were definitely again older. I don't think it was anything particularly terminal but they were definitely getting older, so that was one of the projects that we were able to do. But there was another one, which is quite sad that the person's friend they had a terminal illness.

Betsey: Wanted him to do the book, yeah. They had both had the same terminal illness and the friend was doing, he's still doing his own book, but he wanted his sick friend to sort of do his perspective as well. It was a legacy book but it was also like, hey, you've been diagnosed with XYZ and how do you handle it? And this is how my family handled it. And yeah unfortunately before we got to work with him the gentleman passed away.

Stuart: Yeah.

Betsey: So now we're working on that book with the gentleman's wife and their two young, they're not young, but I mean they're young to me because they're in their twenties. So their son they were working with them on that to sort of try to create sort of a memoir for the boys and for their future children. So, yeah, that was a little harder.

Stuart: Yeah, it is and because it's relatively recent as well. I mean this in the last couple of months that this is going on and it's surprising how close you get to people even in just a couple of conversations. I mean obviously who is as close as the actual people involved but even so, I mean that's the nice thing about working with a relatively small group of people is that we haven't got robots that are recording things to then dispense them back out. Yeah every person in the process is connected with everyone and everyone that's at the other end of the process.

Betsey: True, yeah.

Stuart: Yeah, definite personal connections that are made. Yeah, sorry, that's a bit of a turn there. Well it does highlight a point that time's fleeting so the ability to capture stuff and capture it before the opportunity disappears is it's a moment in time. And even if the job of work is just to have that memory captured that's a perfectly valid job of work. We're talking all the time about okay, what's the funnel, what's the return, and what do you do beyond the book and all the things from a transactional point of view and in a financial funnel but just as valid is the job of work of capturing that.

Betsey: Yeah.

Stuart: Okay, what, yeah I think that probably covers it in a pretty good way. Capturing the different types it's not just about lead generation although next week we're going to be back on that subject and we're going to be talking about it in detail again. The opportunity to get that story down and the extra benefit that it has by adding that human element even to one of the lead generation books that we talk about. And I'm glad that we talked about this today because it really is quite.

Betsey: And you know it's interesting, it's beneficial, I think that for people who have been following us for some time we do always talk about the lead generation books and there are other options out there. So if you're thinking about doing something or you're thinking maybe we've planted the seed today, you know, like this would be great for my organization. Because they're definitely beneficial I think if you remember to add those stories and add the real life examples I think your employees will definitely benefit you know from that, so.

Stuart: That's a good point. I mean, as we were saying a couple of the other examples of the five hundred plus that we've done now popped up in conversation but as you listen to this if you've got an idea and it's not specifically something that we've talked about then just reach out to us and it's almost certainly something that we've done with someone or something very close. And yeah, reach out, ask us some questions and we can see what we can bring together.

Betsey: Definitely. That was good.

Stuart: Okay, yeah, enjoyed that, thanks for your time again today. This is gonna be episode 76, so not too much in the way of sharing this today apart from the transcript so if you did want to have a scroll through that or catch up on anything specific that we talked about then just head over to 90minutebooks.com/podcast and as I said this is gonna be episode 76 and the transcript will be there.

If this did spring an idea and it was something specific and you want to get started then as always just head over to the website and follow the get started links at 90minutebooks.com. And if you are thinking of something as Betsey said that's maybe slightly outside of what we talked about it's probably very similar to things that we've done in the past. So, just shoot us an email to support@90minutebooks.com and we'll be able to jump on the call and talk through your idea.

Betsey: Awesome.

Stuart: Okay.

Betsey: Well done.

Stuart: Thanks for your time Betsey, thanks for listening everyone. We will catch you in the next one.

Betsey: Alright, thanks Stuart.

Stuart: Cheers, bye.