A digital presence has long been essential for businesses, but a personal brand is increasingly important for business owners - it's the new foundation for building trust and credibility.

Today on the Book More Show I had a conversation with Luke Hessler, CEO of Ace Branding, who helps impact-driven entrepreneurs amplify their voice through strategic digital PR.

Luke explains how digital perception shapes real-world business decisions, from major consulting contracts to local service providers. He shares how his firm leverages a network of publications, podcasts, and TV networks to help thought leaders control their narrative and build authentic connections with potential clients.

We discuss the evolution from traditional PR to digital-first strategies, exploring how consistent brand messaging across multiple channels creates compound returns over time. Luke provides practical advice on building both company and personal brands, emphasizing the long-term value of investing in your digital reputation.

We of course also talk about all the ways a book can amplify strategic media placement and enhance your authority positioning, regardless of industry.

I particularly appreciate Luke's focus on authentic storytelling, relationship building and our shared approach to starting conversations.

SHOW HIGHLIGHTS

1. In the episode, Luke Hessler from Ace Branding discusses the importance of digital PR and online reputation management for thought leaders, entrepreneurs, and businesses.

2. Luke elaborates on the shift from traditional to digital marketing and PR, emphasizing the need to capture audience attention on digital devices.

3. The conversation highlights the advantages of integrating traditional media appearances, such as TV and podcasts, with digital strategies to maximize visibility and credibility.

4. We explore the necessity of maintaining a consistent brand across all channels to build credibility and authenticity, illustrated by personal anecdotes from Luke.

5. Luke explains the perceived credibility cycle, outlining the steps from perceived credibility to achieving tangible results, and how being an author can enhance one's credibility.

6. The discussion underscores the long-term value of brand relationships over short-term marketing tactics, inspired by insights from Gary Vaynerchuk's "Day Trading Attention."

7. We delve into the importance of building a robust online presence and overcoming technology's intimidation, using examples such as Luke's parents' transition to a digital business model.

8. Luke emphasizes the role of first impressions in the digital world and how online perception can impact real-life buying decisions.

9. The episode offers practical advice on starting the journey in media placements and brand building, stressing the importance of taking the first step now.

10. We discuss the process for those interested in working with Ace Branding, starting with a no-commitment discovery call and creating a tailored PR plan.

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LinkedIn: Luke Hessler

TRANSCRIPT

(AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors)

Stuart:  Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of the book more show. It's Stuart bell here and today joined by Luke Hessler. Luke, how you doing?

Luke: I'm doing very well. How are you,

Stuart: Good, thank you, although we're recording at nine o'clock and apparently I need more coffee to be able to speak properly. I blame it on the accent. Thanks for taking some time today.

We were introduced, I think we were, so I knew Thomas first, who works with you, and I think we were introduced by a third party mutual friends. So it's I always love these podcasts because it's such a mix of people. I think, depending on how the release goes, the one that I recorded just before that was with a really good friend called Andrew. So I know Andrew super well. You and I have talked a couple of times, but I don't know what you guys do in as much detail. So this is going to be good because it'll be me diving into things at the same time that the audience are learning. So it's always nice to know that way around, because I can kind of proxy some of their questions through. Uh, absolutely what we're asking. So why don't we start with um, you own ace branding. So why don't we start with what ace do and then we can talk about the, the synergy or the, the overlap between um, all the supporting elements that that we do, because I think this is going to be really interesting for people.

Luke: Yeah, yeah, I really think so as well. So well, first off, thank you so much for having me on. It's an honor and a pleasure to be here. So a little bit about us.

So Ace Branding is a digital PR firm.

Our mission is to serve those who serve others, so we look for impact driven thought leaders, entrepreneurs and businesses, and we want to amplify their voice through press, podcasts and TV.

So we have curated a network of hundreds of publications, thousands of podcasts and dozens of TV networks that have pre-approved stories for qualified thought leaders and entrepreneurs, and so, essentially, we want to go and take those individuals who have a voice and have a story, but maybe it's not heard as much, and we want to be able to go and amplify that voice.

We do classify ourselves as a digital PR firm and primarily is because everything that we do is digital. We really want to focus on people's online reputation. We think that we are transitioning into this digital age and we still believe that first impressions last a lifetime, but in the digital age, oftentimes that first impression is from a Google search or a social media search rather than a handshake or a conversation, and so, if we can anticipate that and then position our clients in a way that, when people do look them up online, it conveys the same credibility and authority as if they were to have a conversation with them in real life. That gives our clients a massive competitive advantage and really empowers them to be able to go and succeed in this digital age.

Stuart: It's so interesting, isn't it? The fact that, on the one hand, naming things like talking about an online company or this is a digital PR, on the one hand, it kind of becomes less of an issue because everything is in part digital, but that loses some of the. It's good not to differentiate it and that'd be the be all and end all, but I think it's super important to differentiate it from a legacy PR firm or traditional PR firm or real life PR firm, because the expertise and the job of work that it's doing and the approach that you take it's very different from what would have been done 15, 20 years ago Although it's kind of, I guess, getting further and further away now where there wasn't a digital element, but certainly the discipline and the speciality is different. Do you feel like, with the people who you talk to, that kind of ability to really dial in and amplify this particular channel rather than all of the potential channels? It's a benefit.

Luke: Yeah, I mean, I've found that this is just where people are moving. I mean, at the end of the day, like when you look at marketing in general, it's a cardinal rule that attention is the currency of marketing, and so wherever the attention is at, that's where all the marketing's at. So if you really think back on it from just a reality situation, it's like when people back in the day would wake up. They'd wake up and they'd read the newspaper, and then they'd, you know, drive to work and listen to the radio, and then they'd get home and they'd watch TV. And so where was everyone's attention? It was in, you know, print advertisements on radio and on TV, because that's where all the attention was. And so now there's just been a shift of attention.

Right, everybody's just staring at this phone all day, and so because that's happened, naturally I think the shift of marketing and in turn PR as well, has also gone out there and shifted there, and so that's really why we focus primarily on all digital versions of it. So, even though we do TV appearances, for example, and that does go live on TV, which is great, but you also are going to get a recording of that. That's like a live link that will rank on Google for your name, that you can then use for ads and like various things like this. And so, even though there are some like traditional non-digital strategies that we offer, we also offer consultation on how to be able to implement those in the digital world to be able to get results and see success in your business.

Stuart: And that's a great point. It's utilizing the tools in the channels that make the biggest difference Someone hoping that they were to go on TV and that would be the be all and end all. The likelihood of that is a lot slimmer, not to say it doesn't happen. It's similar to like the bestseller argument that we have with people. Our position is very kind of bestseller BS, the anti-bestseller approach, because a lot of people there are a lot of other services out there that talk about write a bestseller sit back and wait for people to knock on your door.

You get all of these benefits and author and people will come searching for you, which I mean there are definitely elements of that and we want to amplify some of those points, just like you're talking about amplifying the elements, the digital elements, of a old world TV appearance, but it's not the be all and end all the likelihood of having that hit, that piece. That just resonates and it's like the idea of going viral. I mean trying to orchestrate that. If it happens it's a nice benefit, but trying to orchestrate that very, very difficult.

Luke: It is. Yeah, it is very difficult. It's kind of like trying to catch the genie in the bottle and if it happens it's amazing. You know, and it can happen, and the thing that happens is that you know the companies that go and sell this. They they it happens for one of their clients and then they they promote that to everyone.

You know, kind of making people feel like it's the norm and not the exception, when actually the truth is the opposite. That is the exception and the norm is that you don't get a lot of those different things, and so you know. That's why I think taking a more consistent and predictable approach works. You know, like I almost think of it kind of like the difference between like a um, a healthy lifestyle, where somebody you know eats just well and works out well and it's consistent, it's sustainable, versus you know somebody who's doing like the crash diet and they're doing keto this week and then they're doing vegan next week and then they're doing for the week after that.

I think it's about finding a sustainable approach where you can go and consistently go and put out content on the internet through various channels, whatever you're most comfortable with, and then being able to control your own narrative, because I believe that if you don't control your narrative, then what will happen is the algorithm is going to control your narrative and the algorithm doesn't give a crap about you. All right, all the algorithm cares about is clicks, and usually the things that get the most clicks are not the things that are best for you.

And so we want to empower people so that they can control their own story and control their own narrative, because the reality is that, you know, what I've seen, at least, is that that perception is reality and digital perception becomes physical reality. It's like when you make a buying decision Think about just when you bought something on Amazon You're looking at two different waffle makers and you got one waffle maker with 5,000 five-star reviews and you got another one with five five-star reviews. 99 out of 100 people are going to choose the one with 5,000 five-star reviews, Not because it's necessarily better, but they perceive it to be better based on those reviews. Granted, it's possible to buy and fake reviews on Amazon, so you could actually be buying an inferior product than the one with the five five-star reviews. That's actually legit and better, but you don't know that.

And so what happens is digital perception. So how you perceive things to be online determines your physical reality, which are real life buying decisions that people create. And so, again, this is this is. Some people will argue whether this is right or wrong or this and that, and it's like. To me it doesn't.

Stuart: It doesn't matter, because it is what it, is Right and so now the question is how are you going to deal with it?

Luke: You know how can you use that to your advantage, and that's that's what we like to be able to help people with.

Stuart: Yeah, those are such great points, that whole psychology around things. We have a framework that we use, sometimes called the eight micro yeses, and it's the idea that as someone's moving down a funnel towards something, or on a conveyor belt towards something, then each of these yes points need to be yeses, otherwise they'll just kind of eject themselves out the side. So that credibility piece, that idea that, um, we talk about this with the books because the, for us, the books aren't the product. The conversation, the opportunity for the conversation is the product. The book is just a mechanism for accelerating it a little bit. So the book still needs to be good enough, but we're not getting too carried away with. You're not going to win a pulitzer prize from, from this, this, uh, this asset, and that's not the purpose. The purpose is that someone has for some reason seen the, the book, an ad, or has been given it by someone, or you're presenting it to them. They're accepting it because social pressure aside, or you're presenting it to them. They're accepting it because social pressure aside, if you've given it to them, I guess. But they're accepting a request and a copy because they're interested, they know where they want the outcome. It's kind of yes, yes, yes, yes. They just need to.

The content of the book, the table of contents, the call to action, all those things just need to keep them moving down that path. And the same with the press and the PR and the digital searching for a company or a business. They're not really doing that level of due diligence, like you were saying, with the referrals, the recommendations. Rather, they're not going and vetting all of those, they're not using something like FakeSpot to see if it's real or not, they're not reading each one to see whether it seems consistent. It's just another yes in that path. And then it moves them forward. And I really think that that online presence and the fact that people do see you in other places or have the opportunity to see you in other places, like you're saying about the TV appearance, it's great that that happens. But then also taking that and clipping it on social media and having it embedded on the website, it's just all of these credibility, small little checks that move people towards the outcome, because what we're looking for is that conversation.

Luke: That's exactly what it is. It's that conversation and what I found is that the bigger the ticket, the item you know that you're looking to go out there and sell, the more due diligence it is that your clients are likely to go out there and do. And so if you're selling a waffle maker, you know it's probably just seeing the freaking five-star reviews is enough for people to say yes and let's go, you know. But if you are a, you know, a keynote speaker who charges $50,000 or $10,000 for a keynote, or if you're a consultant who charges $10,000 a month, before people go and make these buying decisions, they are going to do actually pretty significant due diligence. And so they probably not only will this, do a Google search and be like, oh wow, look at he's in these articles, that's fine, they'll probably read them, they'll probably listen to some of the podcasts that you've done. They'll probably do this because they want to get to know you as a person. And so that's why, you know, with what we do, is that we do make it so that whatever is being published, you know, whatever story is being out there, we really do want that to be an accurate representation. We really do want to make it so that if somebody does read that, you know they are going to be, you know, seeing you as somebody who's like, wow, this person really does know what's going on, they are an expert, and we want it to build trust in their mind. Because in this world that we live in it's so difficult to create trust because there's so many scammers, there's AI fake this, fake that, and so it's it's. It's a difficult thing to be able to go out there and navigate, but if you can have your, you can have your story right.

I say your brand is what people say about you when you're not there. Right, that's your, that's your real brand and so it's like that brand. That story needs to be consistent on all channels. So you have your book. That's that's one presentation of you, and then you have the podcast that you're in, and then you have the press that you've done, and then you have the social media presence that you have, and then you have some TV appearance that you've gone and done, and if it is consistent across all these mediums, across all these channels, the likelihood that you really are who you say you are is significantly higher versus if it's just on one or just on you know, maybe it's. If it's inconsistent, then it does a negative effect to you, right? But like, these are the.

These are the things that I think people should be thinking about and I also really encourage people.

I mean, rather than whether they are a um, they own a lawn mowing company, you know.

Or whether they own a, you know, an expert consulting deal, we're thing with first fortune 500s, you know, like, I believe that building your brand, investing in that credibility whether it be writing a book, whether it be getting PR, whether it be doing that that is the direction that you need to go out there and go, because you know, they say there was a recent statistic I think it was an ad week it said that 82% of consumers do online research before making a buying decision.

And that's again like. I mean, I literally just hired a lawn person for our house and there's like three companies and I'm online Googling all of them. I'm looking at what's going on, you know, and, like you don't think of a lawn business as a digital business, but like, this is the world that we're living in nowadays, and the sooner that people can accept that you know, like and then do something about it, then it's going to give them a huge advantage and the people who don't and like continue to resist it. You know it's going to be really difficult to continue to compete in this marketplace as time goes on.

Stuart: Right, I sent some a couple of weeks ago that I'm old enough to remember when free website days, so in the, in the, and this is going back to the UK, so this is probably a little bit, maybe a year or two behind the US. But in the late 90s so Asda, which is the I think they're owned by Walmart, so a big grocery chain in the UK can remember driving down the road with friends and seeing an Asda truck with a website on the back and we were like young early 20s guys. We were quite into it, like we were online at the time but very few people other were, I think. Even at that point point I had a corporate job but it didn't have an email address at work, which seems insane, insane and glorious in the same way. But yeah, seeing the truck going down the road and it was a standout, we were driving behind it and we're talking about it as, oh yeah, this is the sign of it starting to cross a threshold.

So back then a having a website was a novelty. Then it gets into being a really expected and now, if you don't have that online presence, it's, as you say, a detriment. I can't say the number of small businesses that you've seen around, where it's just a phone number or an ALL email address and there's something that dings credibility about those things. So the breadth of your presence out there. I really like the reminder to people that people are looking and if you're not controlling what goes out there, then there's either nothing, which is an impact, or there's maybe things that you wouldn't necessarily prefer to be out there, which is obviously even worse.

Luke: Yeah, that's exactly right. And it's also people I think there's people that, just like they, have this thing in their mind where, like well, I'm not a tech person, I can't do that, and it's like it's so scary to them so they don't even go in and look into it. And it's and I get it on one hand, because it can be really intimidating right, it's like no-transcript. I'm like go online, go digital, go digital. You can see these patients via zoom. You know they can go to a website and buy these vitamins. They can do this stuff. It's going to save you so much money and it's going to be more efficient for them.

They resisted it for probably five, six years and then, literally just this year, they decided to actually go all digital, online. They did it. It was scary for them. They're not tech people at all. My dad still barely knows how to open his iPhone.

But I kind of walked them through some basic little things. You know that they can go and do, and they made the transition and now, from going and doing that, their profit margins have skyrocketed in what they're doing, cause now their, their target market is no longer just this small geographical location of their physical location. Right, they can market to anybody on the planet or anybody in the country you know they can. Those, those people don't have to drive to get the, get their stuff. They can just hop on, zoom real quick from their own home. It's more convenient for them.

Right, and so and so, like it was my, my point is, just like the, the, the, the imagination makes up this big thing in our mind that it's going to be such a scary, intimidating, hard to figure out thing when it's really not. You know, you just have to be willing to be teachable again, right, you have to be humble enough to say I don't know what I don't know, and be hungry enough to go and do your research Because, quite frankly, with the internet you have any questions. The answers are out there, you know, if you're willing to put in some time and energy you can find how to do it.

Stuart: It's not that hard, right exactly? It's no longer a knowledge gap, it's the right knowledge and the time and effort and and certainty that you're not wasting um, it's kind of like the opportunity cost of doing this versus doing something else, understanding that this is important. I think one of the things that one of the things that resonated as we were talking, is the focus that you've got on story. So we are the same in the sense that, as I said earlier, the purpose of the book, the product of the book, isn't the book itself, it's the conversation, and that conversation is going to happen between you and the individual when they are face-to-face with you or face-to-Zoom with you, but the outcome is meeting it. It's not reading a book in isolation, it's moving towards a conversation with you. So the process that we have is very much not the expensive traditional ghostwriting type routes, which gets prohibitively expensive. It's the interview-based thing that turns into the content of the book. Now, we do that for two reasons. One is cost, because we want to make this as accessible as possible, but the other one it's the right medium for the job of work, when the job of work is getting in conversation with someone. So if we were to have something ghostwritten or AI written because that obviously comes up much more these days so let's say you wrote something with AI and bundle it all together A it would take a lot longer than just doing this process anyway, because you've got to pull all the things together and make it coherent.

But the main point to this argument is that what someone then reads isn't you and your words, it's not your approach, it's not your story.

Someone will come in and start talking to you and and in the worst case scenario, they'll have read some academic piece and then you talk like a southern boy from texas or from a local from the south of england or like me, um, and there'll be that disconnect. But in having your story come through in the words and using your language in the way that you describe things, it's then that consistent path. So again, think about those eight micro yeses and keeping someone from yes they're interested to yes, they're ready to transact. It just smooths it a lot more, and I think that is what resonated with the way that you were talking, because you're so you were describing how you were doing some of the placements, and that story element is pretty integral to everything that you do, so talk. You were doing some of the placements and that story element is pretty integral to everything that you do, so talk a little bit more about that yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Luke: I mean, it's the it's. In my opinion, it's the most important thing. I think brand consistency and authenticity is the number one most important thing. Um, in today's day and age, especially with all the the deep fakes and the filters and all this stuff, like people are looking for something that's real, and I think that there is an energy about that. It's kind of odd, as that sounds Like people can feel it if you really are being real or if you're not. And so what we try and go and do is that we believe that everybody has a story to go and tell and what our goal is to be able to pull that story out for you and then be able to help you articulate it in a way that is in alignment with who you are, and so we want that to be authentic. That's like the number one word that we hear again and again. It's like we just want to be authentic. We want to be authentic and that's what our goal is, and it's again kind of goes back to the point I was making a little bit earlier, where it's like, if you have one kind of like brand narrative and, as you mentioned, it sounds like super academic over here, but then over here it's super casual, and then over here it's like something else. It's like there's inconsistencies, and inconsistencies leads to inauthenticity. That's what people think you know, and so that's where the consistency of who you are and how you show up is is so, so important. And so, yeah, before we even do any publishing, before we even do any you know podcasts or anything like that the first thing we do is we have a brand identity session with the client to make sure that we have clarity on the brand and the messaging and who we are and what we do, and we can objectively put that on paper and have something to point to and be like hey, this is this, is it and um, and everybody goes and agrees with that. And so I think that goes into a lot of what you guys talk about with the book as well. You know you have to have that authenticity. You have to be able to make it be in your voice so that when people actually talk to you in real life, you know like it's consistent with what they read. And the other thing I'll say is that you're the strategy about kind of how, like the project, the conversation, not even necessarily the book it's a very similar perspective that we have.

You know, like I have this thing where we call it the perceived credibility cycle and there's like four steps to it. So it first starts with, kind of like perceived credibility. So if somebody meets you online for the first time, you know they're going to look you up real quick and in a matter of a second they're going to perceive you as either credible or not credible and in their mind it's like is this someone that can help me get what I want, or is it not someone who can help me get what I want? Right? And in a moment when they judge you, that's going to determine whether or not they answer the message that you sent them Right. So if I DM somebody, you know they're going to click on my profile, judge it and then in a second they'll decide should I respond or should I not? If they do perceive you as credible, then what they'll do is then they'll give you access to them. That's when your job is to go, build rapport, which is where you actually like the real trust. That's the conversation part that you were talking about, right? And then, once you have the conversation, the report, that's when you can go and get the results. But the key is all is that if they don't perceive you as credible, then they'll never give you access, then you'll never have the conversation and build rapport and you'll never get the result. And so that's why I love what you guys are doing with the books is that, as an author, it positions the people as the thought leaders, as the experts, and it gives them that credibility and it's a conversation starter. It gives them access to individuals that they wouldn't normally have access to in the past, which leads to conversations which then can lead to trust.

No-transcript, the book on that subject. It's like you literally wrote the book on that subject. Now, you can say that forever. And so I think it's when you think of an ROI perspective, when people think about like brand and things like what we do with it, sometimes people are like, well, if I, how many books do I need to sell to make my money back, and it's like it's not the right thought, right, it's not the way to think about this. You have to think of, like the lifetime ROI of what, what, what doors that that book's going to open for you. And then, now, what does that look like? What, what deals do you do from there And's. That's really you know where you get the roi from, and it's massive, it really is absolutely massive and that's where it ties in so nicely with what you guys do as well.

Stuart: Because again, it's that thought process that hey, we're going to do some things and those things have a downstream opportunity for touch points or entry points into the world or credibility points. All of these things, it's none of. It is a build it and they will come type thing. It's not a press it once and it's done. It's a tool and an asset that kind of again keep using the word synergy but synergistically builds up over time to kind of establish all of these pieces. And the other element is it it raises the, the minimum, the minimum level, it raises the baseline. So with all of this stuff out there, it raises the baseline, so that it raises the baseline. So, with all of this stuff out there, it raises the baseline so that then when you do do an activity, when you do go and speak in front of the Chamber of Commerce, when you do reach out to someone and they start Googling around, when that person looks in, the baseline is now up here, and it might be the case that all of your industry is down here, so your baseline becomes higher, or it might be the case that all of your industry is down here, so your baseline becomes higher. Or it might be that you were talking about the your parents' business in their lifetime, the baseline of what everyone expected raised up, and they were a little bit below, not having any digital presence. So now they're they're, they're at the baseline. So, just as you said before, whether you love it or hate it, you've got to respond to it, because that's where the market is.

Um, exactly right, you were talking about this idea of um. The person are you. You're the person who wrote the book on it. A story that always comes to mind when everyone says something like that is uh, we did a podcast, probably six or eight months ago now, with a guy called paul ross. I'd you written a couple of books, but the one that I love so he's a podiatrist, so the one I love is his latest one tiny, tiny little book called um, but perfectly sized, called my damn toe hurts. So I keep, every time I've talked about on the podcast, I keep saying I can't remember the name of the condition that causes your toe to hurt, but it's kind of like not arthritis but um. Anyway, whatever it is, makes a target. So his approach with all of the these little books is that single target audience reaching out to person, giving them the content to move on. This is 30 pages, maybe definitely nowhere near a bestseller, so all of that side of the equation is irrelevant.

But he was talking about a story on the podcast where he'd come in. Someone had come in, shared an appointment. Paul didn't know who the person was. There was no kind of prior connection as far as he knew. It wasn't a referral from another client. The person came in, had whatever condition that made their toe hurt. He was there doing whatever the work was in the appointment.

Um, he was there doing whatever the work was in the in the appointment and they the person in the chair got halfway through and we're saying I've just put the connection together. You're paul, you're the guy who wrote the book and that's why I'm here. I saw a copy of the book and this is why I'm here. I've had this issue for ages and you described the symptoms and I thought, hey, that's me. I didn't realize there was a fix for it.

So that outcome being the connection, the story that Paul told in the book a little bit resonated with the person that made them come in and those exact things that wasn't a article or a press example, but still the book is almost small enough in this in this case, because it's a small subject, it could almost be an article.

You can imagine a scenario where what you're doing in extracting people's stories, making sure that that kind of personal connection is there, navigating the the journey of the story towards the call to action, it's so aligned with the approach that we've got, and paul's example would be a perfect case of how that could have worked.

Um, could have worked in your world. So, one way of getting to the point of everyone, we email the podcast out to everyone. Everyone who's on our list has kind of raised their hand as being interested in some degree for the 90-minute book. You've worked with authors in the past, so the people who will receive this, at least in the first instance, are going to be that mix of small business owners like Paul, big consultants, financial advisors, people who have got probably less so on the corporate side, but pretty significant multi-location practices and, again, the spread of accountants to HVAC engineers. I don't think we've done a lawn company yet, but anyway, that broad mix. Give us a couple of examples to tie in for people you've worked with, or examples that will help people say, oh yeah, that that could work for me.

Luke: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean those. At the end of the day, like I mentioned in the beginning, like our niche is really within thought leaders, entrepreneurs and businesses, and and so I could give you we've worked with over 1500 clients now over the last decade, and so I could give you a million stories, you know from. You know working with professional athletes. You know to working with, you know brand new startup entrepreneurs and like everything that's in between. You know, but I also I think that one thing that makes us unique is that I'm also a product of this product as well.

You know, it's like I think that in life there's a lot of people who are selling things that they haven't necessarily done. And you know, and I don't know if that's that's just not me, you know, like what I do is like the only reason I even started this firm is because I figured out how well this worked for me, and then I was like, wow, this works well for me, this can work for other people, you know, and so I like to try and give personal examples and experiences, you know, so that people can see that it is, it is really real, and so, like I mean, I'll just give you just like, if you just think of a simple scenario, like people that listen to this podcast, like my, they don't know who I am other than this conversation, you know, and it's like and if they think it's interesting, right, they're like oh OK, this is a kind of a cool concept, like what's everyone going to go and do? You guys are going to Google me, you're going to look me up online, that's going to be the thing and then guess what You're going to judge based on what you see. And so it's like in a real life example of what's happening right now. This is what happens in the digital age. This is how conversations happen.

Whether you're a financial advisor and someone's like man, should I go with this guy or should I go with that guy? They're going to look you up and they're going to judge. You know that, whether you're somebody who is a consultant, right, or whatever, like I can, I use lawn company because it seems like the most far out thing, that like they wouldn't need a digital, you know, on reputation, but you can and it's valuable, and so, yeah, I just, I really just encourage everybody to to, right now, just Google yourself. Okay, like I don't even know if you've done that before. But just Google yourself and what comes up and is if and now, put yourself in the mind of a potential customer. If, if you Now put yourself in the mind of a potential customer, If you're a customer and you Googled you and you're thinking about working with you, would that Google reputation encourage you or discourage you from working from you? And then now look at your competitors, you know, and see where they're at and what's looking at from them, you know. 

And so to me, I think that's the simplest, most easy way to be able to kind of get a feel for what this is. Because, again, I think most people can realize that, yes, you know, people do Google things. They look stuff up online before they make that fine decision, but not always do they think about it in their own terms, in their own business. So I think, regardless of what industry you're in, regardless of what it is, if you're a thought leader, if you are an entrepreneur or you are a business, if you can build your, your online reputation, look at it like a digital asset. That's really how I look at my, my, my online reputation. It's a digital asset. I leverage it in every conversation that I do. My team leverages it right. I have a whole sales team, right. My sales team's on the call and they're like our CEOs look Hustler, look them up online this is who he is, you know. And like they do that on every call, that's there Right. So like I've invested a lot into this over the course of the years, but like it's given me the biggest ROI of everything that I've done.

And the other thing to really consider is I also I think it's important to build a professional brand online in the terms of like a business brand or an enterprise brand. I think that's that's important to do. But I also really try and encourage people to build their personal brands and focus on that, because, at the end of the day, we're entrepreneurs and oftentimes, you know, we like you know you're doing one thing today and then maybe you're doing something else tomorrow. Who knows what life's going to take you in 30 years? I'm only 31 and I've done too many businesses at this point, you know.

And so it's like if you don't build your personal brand, what happens is, every time you start a new company, you start a new profession, you do a new company. You start a new profession, you do a new thing. You have to start over, right, because you build the brand of XYZ company, but now you're not building that, so now you got to start from scratch. But if you build your personal brand like if you look at the brand of Luke Hessler then what happens is I have a following of individuals. I've created a community of people who trust me. You know, they see me as somebody who is integritous, who does what he says he's going to do, who is a good business owner, et cetera, and they trust me.

And so, whether I'm launching a digital PR firm, or maybe tomorrow I'm going to launch a course, or maybe the next day I'm going to go and freaking, become a preacher and go spread the word of Jesus, it's like, regardless of what it is, it's like there is an audience that's already there, that has trust that I can go to, so I don't have to go and pay for ads, I don't have to go do that kind of stuff, because I've curated a reputation and a community and I think that that that asset that you can build if you can build that in the digital age that we live in, I really don't think there's going to be a more valuable asset, and I bought Bitcoin in 2017. I'm telling you this is I've gotten a better roi on this than I've had on bitcoin, which is saying something, because that's going crazy yeah, that's it.

Stuart: It's uh finding seeds for the long run and then waiting for them to uh come to fruition. Yeah, the personal brand element, I'm sorry no, go ahead.

Luke: I'm just gonna say, but it's like the thing is is like the hardest part, I think, is you just mentioned. It's so key is that, like people are so addicted to instant gratification, they want to spend a dollar and make three immediately. You know, and that's the marketing side of stuff and that's good. You know, if you're running an ad, that is exactly how it should be, but the brand is different. You have to have that long term perspective. You have to have some delayed gratification. You got to have some depth of vision and if you can have that, you know you can you can really win.

Stuart: Yeah, actually that's a great point. I'm glad that I didn't cut you off, because the idea that the money is in the long-term relationships with people and this kind of burn and churn type idea again I keep this example keeps coming up on podcasts as well, just because it's such a clear example. So the, it's the minority of people who execute immediately, particularly in. So it's different. If you're a plumber and you're dealing with, like a leaky pipe, that's a pretty pressing thing that needs to be sorted out within the next couple of minutes. But if someone wants to write a book, if someone thinks about executing a PR strategy, if someone's thinking about developing their personal brands, that's probably something, and we've been in business as well 10 years, so we're on a similar kind of time frame there. You'll see it as well. People will get on the calendar and when you look back they joined the list six, seven, eight years ago. It just today wasn't the day for them. So this idea that it's, um, the work that you do now has seeds, but the, the, it's, uh, it's an investment into that future pot of return, not just that burn and churn of. Here's an ad and I've got a 15 day attribution window. In fact, the podcast that I recorded with andrew last week I think he was saying that google's attribution window used to be 30 days but they've just reduced it to something like 15 because they've decided that across the board they can't, because there's so many inputs into the system they can't accurately give an attribution beyond 15 days because by that point it just gets so diverse. So as soon as you switch your mind away from that short-term return into long-term asset building.

So the example I always give is a friend of ours called Kenny realtor up in Massachusetts. He purged his list of people who he had no sign of life from for more than I think it was quite a big time, like two years or something. If there was no sign of life, he wanted to purge them off the list. No reason to do that whatsoever life. He wanted to purge them off the list, no reason to do that whatsoever, but he wanted to do it. Six months later gets a phone call and the phone call went to voicemail and kenny played us the voicemail. So that's why I know the story and it was a guy who reached out saying hey, kenny, it's bob here. Um hope, this is your number. Sorry, I must have done something to get off your list. I used to get your market watch all the time, but I haven't received it for a while. Anyway, I hope this is your number. Unfortunately, my sister died recently, so we're going to sell her house and our house and then we're going to relocate further inland. Give me a shout.

So these houses were two oceanfront properties in massachusetts, I think one was like I probably say the numbers differently every time, but I want to say like one was 1.2 and the other was like 2.3 million dollars. The guy actually had to phone another realtor in town in order to get kenny's number. So I mean, who normally, which clients normally, would do that? But this the point of it is kenny had built a rapport with someone, that someone knew that they wanted to do something at some point in the future. It's just today wasn't the day for them, so they stayed in it for the long haul. And that's where I think a lot of the work that both of us do ties in. We're creating things that give people a reason to raise their hand. In the first place, for us it's book, for you it's media placement. For both of us there's a strong call to action in those elements. But then it's the long-term relationship that it's building with people. It's setting up that jumping off point for all of the other things that can. That can tie in.

Luke: That's it. That's it. And it's such an interesting point in today's day and age that he was able to build that strong of rapport with somebody who he had never met. They'd never met ever, you know, but the person had that much respect for him that he's freaking calling other realtors to get to his phone and go out there and get there Like like that's possible in the digital age. If you do it right and you add value and you build that brand, like you can quite literally have the rapport and respect from people all over the country in the world You've never met before, but they have had a positive impact on their life. From the information that you've provided, whether it's from a book, whether it's from a podcast you're on, whether it's a social media post, whether it's articles you're putting out, you know it doesn't matter, that is, it's such a huge thing. But if you're not putting yourself out there, you know you're, you're just man, you're just it's, it's. It's going to be hard to win.

Stuart: It really is. Yeah, we were putting this on Thursday and on Tuesday this week. Gary Vaynerchuk's new book Day Trading Attention was just released and that's the whole principle that he's talking about in there. It's this idea of being out there in the channels that enable people to build that relationship, to build that rapport and to feel like they've got a connection, so that when you see them for the first time, it not the first time for them and it's uh, you must get the same experience that I get. People will come and start quoting you back to you and it's the, but it's the first time that you're meeting them, and it's such a validating and unusual experience all at the same time it is it really is.

We could talk forever because we're so on the same page and what we want people to do, because all of this information is in people's heads already it's, it's, they've got it. It's just they need to get it out in front of people. Once say I want to make sure two things. One, that we give people a path to get to you so they can find out more about what you guys do. The other one, though what's the first step? So people have been listening. They've been on the podcast list for a while, so everything I preach, they they've. They've heard me say that before, so they're kind of predisposed to this kind of mindset. They're listening to you. Talk about media placements and articles and podcasts and tv as as a way of getting out there. We've talked about bringing that story in, so it's very consistent with the way that we approach. What's a way of people getting started as well as kind of reaching out to you, but what's the best way for them to start thinking about that journey?

Luke: Yeah. So I would say two things. Number one is that you know the journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step right. And so, like, if you have not committed to this philosophy and committed to this belief that you know what I do need to start building my brand, I do need to start investing in this, I do need to do that, like that's, that's the first thing. You've got to make that decision, because until you make that decision, you're not in the game, you're not playing yet, right, and so and some people are like, well, I'm too old, I can't do it. You know, I should have done a while ago. Dah, dah, dah. You know, like I'm, I'm under the philosophy that you know, the best time to, to, to plant the tree, was a hundred years ago, and the second best time is today.

Right and so and so that's what I would encourage. Everyone that's listening to this is just because I can guarantee you one thing that if you don't do it today, you're going to fast forward five years and you're going to wish you started today. Okay, like, whatever day you decide to start, you're going to wish it were earlier.

Stuart: Today's the easiest day ever. There's nothing that's going to happen in the future that's going to make it any easier. It's just procrastination or putting off the decision.

Luke: That's it and frankly, it just gets more competitive because more people are going to do this you know, the sooner you decide to do it, the easier it is to stand out in your industry because other people aren't doing it. But I'm telling you, this is the direction everyone's going and it's going to become a norm, just like the email address or the website thing that you were talking about, right, like this is the direction society is going, so make that decision today, number one. Number two is that you know, if you want to work with us with anything, what we basically offer is we offer a no commitment consultation where it's a, it's a discovery call, it's 15 minutes, and basically what we do is we just hop on and we see if we can get you featured in the media Right, so, not every story and every person. We can go out there and get published and get you know on articles on and things like that, and so we want to get to know you a little bit, see if we can go out there and help it, and then, if it does like if we can actually go and help you based on that conversation, then what we do is we put together a complimentary PR plan for you.

Um, so we do what we we schedule what we call a strategy session where we put together a plan and we share that for you to be able to go out there and review, and that's when you can decide you want to do it or maybe you don't want to go out there and do it. But if you're interested and you just want to explore and you want to see like what this would look like, you know like just book a discovery, call 15 minutes, go to our website, you know you can go ahead and do that. You can talk with one of our brand representatives and you can see if this is a direction you know that makes sense for you right now.

Stuart: And if not, regardless, it'd be good to connect with relationship in the back pocket there. So, yeah, well, exactly because I mean today is the best day to start, seems we don't own time machines, but uh, but for the person that isn't today, then at least make that connection. And tomorrow, when tomorrow's the day, then you know who to go to yeah, well, here's.

Luke: Here's what I tell people is. It's like, again, I think there's a difference between like making the decision that you're going to do it and then actually paying for it, you know because? Because the reality is it's like I'm going to decide to go and build my brand and go and do this. That's huge.

 So, yeah, I mean, I think that there's a difference between when you make the decision that you're going to, like, start going in this direction and going down this path, and when you actually pay for it. I know that is for me, you know, because it's like oftentimes, when someone makes the decision, the next step isn't just, you know, paying for it. It's now figuring out, like, what, what plan do I want to go and take? It's exploring what direction do I want to go. Should I start with a book? Should I do PR? Should I do the podcast? Should I do this? And the answer is that it's different for everyone. You don't know.

So your first goal is to figure out what is the next step, and the way that you do that is just by exploring the various options. You know that are there, and so that's why I really encourage people, like when we do these discovery calls. It really is a discovery call. We want to figure out where you're at, where you want to be and how we can help you get from where you're at to where you want to be, and we value relationships, and so we're not just going to sell you something that you don't need, because it's going to be one and done and you're going to be gone.

You know, what we want to do is we want to put together a long-term plan for you where we can be your PR partner for life, and if today's not the right time, you know, do something else first, then we're going to be honest with you with that and we're going to tell you that, and so I just always encourage people. It's like they get. They get sometimes a little bit scared because it's like, oh, I'm going to do this, but then it's like, oh, I can't afford it, I can't do that. I can't do that.

Stuart: It's like okay fine, all right, the first goal isn't to pay for it. It's like let's this much. Now you can be like, all right, how can I save up that money? Right, and so you're like it's taking it step by step, um, and heading in that direction. That's the key, in my opinion. Yeah, such a great point.

That kind of mental thought switch into okay, this is something I'm going to do and now I'm going to put, even if it's subconscious, now I'm going to pay attention to this kind of element of the world and how I can play in that playground. And then the doing the things, as you say, might be today, might be tomorrow, but at least having that kind of mental switch into okay, this is the way that I'm going to approach things, because you don't know what opportunities come up. I mean, if you've thought about PR and article placement for the past couple of years, but it's just been a oh, maybe that's something I'll get to at some point Now. You years, but it's just been a oh, maybe that's something I get to at some point now. You made the decision no, in the next 12 months, this is something I'm going to do. Almost certainly this conversation is going to come up.

But other opportunities, other opportunities going to present themselves as well, because that little bit of your brain has just decided that, okay, this is going to take some focus now. Um, exactly, such a great conversation. We really should circle back in a few months and kind of check back in and give people the next level or more encouragement to take that step. Yeah, ok, so two things and one I'll link to your LinkedIn on the show notes so, as people are listening, they can just click through and that will link you guys directly. The website what's the best place for people to go on the website so they can find out more?

Luke: Yeah, so if they just go to acebrandingcom, there's a contact button at the bottom. You can get in touch with us. You can schedule a discovery call, connect with one of our brand consultants.

Stuart: Fantastic. And then the last point that chart that's on the wall over your shoulder is that ticking off the year as it goes through?

Luke: Yeah it is. It's like a weeks of my life chart, so it's broken down into like every every little squares a week, and then there's like squares for the month and so, yeah, it's my, that's my life, so it shows a hundred years like that's the, that's the full thing and so that's what. Uh, that's what 31 of them, uh, filled out, looks like so far. So it's fantastic.

Stuart: I was looking at it over your shoulder. I saw a tweet from someone earlier in the month saying hey, just oh, it must have been the beginning of the month, obviously. Oh, by the way, we're uh, we're a third of the way through the year already. How's it going? And it was a uh, it's a very. Puts it very much in your face. So that's uh. As people are looking in the background there, that's a reminder that uh, hey, if you ever thought about doing this type of thing, then those boxes are going to fill pretty quickly.

So crack on they do it's fast so true so true, yeah, um, luke, real pleasure, buddy, when we were talking a couple of weeks ago and decided to do the podcast, I knew this was going to be a good hit and really resonate with the audience. So, as I say, show notes in the podcast player and on the website. So wherever people are listening, they can just click straight through and really recommend doing that discovery call because it's eye-opening and just gives more opportunities to get you as a presence, as a brand, out there.

Luke: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and I appreciate you for having me on, Stuart, you know, you're just one of those people. You're just so, you're so genuine, you're so authentic, you're so real, and that's just not. It's not, it's not, it's not normal in this world that we live in here today, and it's really not.

Stuart: I'm going to wait for the feedback from the podcast, because I think we're similar, that we love what we're doing. We really want to just shake people a little bit and say, hey, this is an opportunity. So this is. I'm waiting for the feedback to say, hey. Finally, stuart had someone on a guest that speaks as fast as he does, so it's good to get the message out there.

Luke: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good luck keeping up with that. If they try to listen to it at 2x speed, it's going to be tough for them.

Stuart: Perfect, All right. Well, I really appreciate it. We'll circle back for sure and check back in with the audience. Everyone, as you're listening. Thanks again. Make sure you check out those show notes, and that discovery call is a real good call to action, Something to do this week before another one of those blocks fills in. So thank you again everyone. Thanks for listening and we'll catch you in the next one.

Luke: Take care everybody.