Today on the Book More Show, I dive into the art of messaging with Global Credibility Expert Mitchell Levy.

Mitchell and I were introduced earlier this year, and in talking to him, I really connected his work with our approach to helping business owners start conversations with clients and customers.

In the show, we dissect the struggles professionals face in articulating their value and unique position in the marketplace and the power clarity and credibility have in personal and business branding. A challenge that could become harder in an AI-powered world, but where an abundance mindset means AI becomes a huge advantage in leveraging leadership.

We discuss the strategic use of books as credibility tools and the importance of an authentic presence, and I share my journey of dialing in the message and determining who we can best help.

Finally, we highlight Mitchell's upcoming, free CoachingFEST event, which will bring together 14 leading speakers to help professionals grow their influence and define their message.

Though it's called CoachingFEST, this event is relevant to everyone listening, not just coaches, as we're all here to refine our message and get more clients. It's well worth checking out the link above.

SHOW HIGHLIGHTS

1. Mitchell shares his insights on the importance of clarity and credibility in personal and business branding, noting that 98% of professionals struggle to articulate their value proposition succinctly.

2. We focus on the shift from a scarcity to an abundance mindset, discussing how AI is democratizing thought leadership and the importance of experience and capability in this new landscape.

3. The concept of Customer Point of Possibilities (CPOP) is introduced, which helps articulate one's core message succinctly, highlighting the discovery that clarity precedes credibility.

4. My personal journey toward identifying my core customer pain point (CPOP) led to narrowing my target audience, which I discuss in relation to executive coaching and business development.

5. We explore the synergy between different coaching services and partnerships, reflecting on the psychological barriers to specializing and the success that comes with a narrowed focus.

6. The necessity of articulating a clear message or CPOP within eight to ten words is emphasized, especially for authors and marketers looking to engage their target audience effectively.

7. I introduce the concept of a micro-commitment—a low-risk offer to captivate potential clients—and propose clarity sessions as a strategic starting point before engaging in book creation or marketing efforts.

8. We guide listeners through the process of becoming a community superhero, leveraging books as conversation starters and knowing one's CPOP to attract the right audience and establish credibility.

9. The upcoming CoachingFest is highlighted as a valuable opportunity for growth and learning from leading industry voices, aimed at helping listeners enjoy playing in their community's playground every day.

10. The strategic timing for book opportunities is explored, stressing the importance of clarity in messaging before writing a book or enhancing one's online presence to enhance credibility and leverage knowledge.

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Mitchell Levy
Coaching Fest Affiliate Link

TRANSCRIPT
(AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors)

Mitchell: So, given the CPOP I plan, it made a lot of sense to pull some of the best coaching voices in the industry to be able to have a two-day summit. So it's a free event. It's called coachingfestcom. Stuart, put in your link in the notes right, and the opportunity here is some of the best voices who are talking about well, do what you love and the money will follow. Craft what you do, that you love doing. How do you provide a service in such a way and what do you charge for it?

Stuart: Hey everybody, Welcome to another episode of the Bookmore Show. It's Stuart Bell here, and today joined by Mitchell Levy. Mitchell, how are you doing?

Mitchell: Stuart, I'm doing great, thank you, thank you.

Stuart: Me too. Me too, I'm looking forward to this. The last couple of shows that I've done have been with people who I haven't had quite such a relationship with in the past. So you and I have met relatively recently, but we've had a lot of time to spend together. So this is I'm coming into this knowing a little bit more than I've done, kind of exploring the conversations with other people. So I'm excited to be able to share this with the audience. Why don't we start with a little bit of background on you and what you do Share with everyone listening some of the things that you were sharing with me?

Mitchell: Let me so I'm. The title that I'm using for myself is Global Credibility Expert, and I birthed that title by interviewing 500 thought leaders between 2019 and 2020. So it was my Napoleon Hill journey and prior to that way, back in the dot-com days, I was working at some microsystems. I left there. Since there, I've been in Silicon Valley for 30 years. I've started 20-ish companies, including running multiple conferences. I've got four book publishing companies, so I don't hit the thousand mark, but we've hit 750. I focus on I'm part of Marshall Goldsmith's 100 coaches, so I actually am a executive coach and have a part of my business for that. And where I'm really excited now what I've been focusing on is I've sort of unraveled what does it really mean to be credible as a human, as a business person, and with that credibility, I've actually gotten the clarity on what does that really mean, and it was sort of the short answer. It's the missing step, but the bigger picture happily married for 35 years Is that right?

Stuart: Oh, let's say yes.

Mitchell: And she wrote what yeah, happily married 35 years, have a son who's 25. And we were generally. I'm in Silicon Valley and life is good.

Stuart: That's the. I didn't realize there was a stone history. My background is IC on the project management side, so it's a little bit of a. I think we bonded a little bit in the way that we talked and described things, so maybe there's a slight underlying engineering connection that's coming through there as well. This we connected.

Really, talking about the credibility piece, I think that was we were introduced on linkedin by a slightly random connection, but the credibility piece is what really resonated in what I'm doing personally in the business, but then for our clients as well and as we were talking more and going into it, your position, that credibility and the clarity that comes from that, being able to define it in a particular way and using that as a jumping off point for all other messaging that particularly resonated. And I think that's really why I wanted to do the podcast, because for the people who are on our list, that this will go out to the people that we've worked with, trying to amplify their message and get their message out there in the world in a kind of conversation starting way. It all comes back to that seed. So, with the people who you've worked with, that experience that you bring to the conversation, where are most people, in terms of both the clarity of their messaging and then the credibility elements that they bring into it.

Mitchell: You know, when I was doing the research and have found later, and so we're talking about over a thousand individuals and corporations. I'm going to give a number that's just absolutely preposterous 98% of everyone I've spoken with 98% do not have clarity on who they are and how they show up and can articulate that in less than 10 words.

Stuart: Right, it's such a. That was the piece and I struggle with it as well. Even being relatively, I mean the book project, we start by telling people that they need to dial in that single target audience. But even for the work that we do, and then, as I do more and more LinkedIn conversations, the introduction calls with people to be able to crystallize it in such a small way you find yourself tripping over the words or adding in extra elements that defining and refining the message down. Do people tend to start with a broad understanding and then it's just getting specific on it, or are they very scattered in? Well, I could do anything for anyone.

Mitchell: More than latter. We've been taught, so it's so funny. We've been taught something. I'm going to say many of the lessons that we've been taught are wrong. We were born knowing the answers right. So when you were born and the first time you go to a playground and other kids your age, you know that playground, that sandbox, is like the entire universe, and then another person that looks like you goes into that universe and you are instantly friends for life and you play forever, long, you get to play and then you probably never see that person again. And you play forever long, you get to play and then you probably never see that person again.

Right Now, if you think about the metaphor of going into a playground because you have a common goal to go on the swing together or go on the seesaw together, whatever tools you're playing with what's interesting is we've been taught we'll stick with the playground metaphor. I've never done this one, so we'll see how it turns out that more is better, right, the bigger the playground, the more things we can do, the continuous enjoyment like more is better. So when you're serving an audience, yeah, no, I don't like the playground. I'll come back to the playground, but let's go back to human nature when we talk about who we are and how we show up. We've been told, well, I work with. And then we need to give 10 or 20 definitions of different audiences we work with, because the more things we do this is what we've been taught the more things we do, the better chance that we're gonna capture the intention of somebody and they're gonna go oh my God, I love you, let me use that service. The opposite is actually true.

The more narrow you could be in terms of how you present yourself, the more focused you could be on how you present yourself, the better the opportunity the person is going to say hey, you know what? I think I need this. Or I know there's somebody in my network that needs this and, by the way, can you do this other thing as well? Right, it's really now you have a choice, right? So there are people I work with who solely focus on men or solely focus on women.

It is clear that, as they're talking about who they are and they come across so strongly and so powerfully that the person of the opposite sex I know you say you only work with men, but would you work with me? Or I know you say you only work with women, but I'm a guy, I'm kind of feminine in my characteristics. Would you work with me? So the interesting part is the simplicity of us, and I'm going to go back now to the playground of articulating, a playground we play in. Because, by the way, stuart, if you don't love what you do, you need to play somewhere else. If you don't love your job, you need to find something else that you do love.

Stuart: Yeah, it's a great analogy and I think even more so it's amplified where we are at this point in time in society and technology and the overwhelm of all the messages it's almost, and again the overwhelm of all the messages. It's almost, and again analogy is going to fall over. But it's almost like the autistic. My wife's a kindergarten teacher and they've got a connected organization that looks after special needs kids and the autistic kids in those programs are quite often overwhelmed by the stimulation, so they're out in nature, so that's not quite so stimulating. They're wearing ear defenders, so they're out in nature, so that's not quite so stimulating. They're wearing ear defenders so they're not kind of overly overstimulated.

But I think all of us to a certain degree are suffering from the same problem. There's so many messages coming in that as your eyes are filtering however many messages are out there unless you're seeing something that you recognize and resonating with something, that message just passes by. So to be able to talk in the language that people use, to use examples that resonate with them, to be consistently present in that way, it just gives money more indicators that they are likely to respond to rather than just having to filter out because there's so much noise out there. I think also it comes from a scarcity point of view. There's a in business I mean in life generally there's a feeling of scarcity. The country's too small, the business is too competitive, there's not enough food.

There's a scarcity narrative that lies underneath everything which is we need to take and claim this, otherwise someone's going to get it, as opposed to the abundance framework of there's we were talking about uh, there's always a problem when you're talking with someone who you know well, because your mind kind of jumps all over the place to different conversations that you had in the past. But we were talking about the ai space and the narrative. There is around a lot of the the media at least taking jobs, causing problems, that the restrictive or the removing elements, rather than the abundance of this will create a whole new industry. That's never been seen before. And the fact that going into something with a specificity but knowing that as long as you pick a target audience that is big enough, then that can be the jumping off point for everything else. It's a much more effective way of thinking about something.

Mitchell: I even got to the point where I wanted to interview 500 thought leaders on credibility is that I had recognized for a long time that book publishing was, and currently is, democratized. Anyone who wants to, it's very easy to create an asset called a book. Well, something happened interesting in 2023. In 2023, not just book publishing is democratized, but thought leadership is now democratized With AI. Anyone can be a thought leader in a space by just having the right prompts. It doesn't mean they have the experience and capabilities the simplicity of focusing on an audience, being able to articulate with that audience words that they can relate to so immediately that they're like wait a second, I need to hear more. Right, and so for me, the I, I first I made a mistake and then, if you're okay, we'll talk about your C, your about your CPOP stands for customer point of possibilities. This is the methodology, the approach that I use. That it's a mechanical approach and I'm going to say that mechanical approach has heart and with that heart, it allows somebody to articulate who they are and how they show up in less than 10 words. So we will share that.

What happened when I was interviewing 500 thought leaders on credibility? What I kind of realized that or thought by the way, I was wrong that what I need to do is I need to actually sell credibility and to go into marketplace, and hence the title Global Credibility Expert still a great title, and that needed to come first. Global Credibility Expert still a great title, and that needed to come first. And it turns out that many people sell credibility, many people are pushing at that, and let's go back to that number I gave earlier in the show 98%. Even the people who are selling credibility. When you ask them about their clarity and you ask them whether or not they're delivering clarity to their clients, the real answer is no.

Stuart: Right.

Mitchell: Right. So a massive aha for me was the recognition that clarity comes before credibility.

Stuart: Right from a kind of a hierarchy of human needs type perspective, that clarity. If you're trying to build credibility in something that you're not clear about, it automatically brings in variance and a lack of specificity and a breadth that can take you off target and going into a different playground. So that, thinking about that clarity first but then understanding that the credibility piece is immediately after it, I think together they really build to something that will help people engage more with the audience that they can help, because it's the line fishing approach rather than the trawling the seabed. It's the line fishing approach of knowing who those people are. It helps dial in all of the other activities and again, not to the exclusion of everything else, but there's only so many units of energy in the day. If you're going to do something and you've chosen the thing to do, then you can double down and really make it as effective and as efficient as possible. Yes, yes, do people have? Well, thank you, but I'm just replaying what I got from you the other day People have.

Sometimes, when we're talking about writing books with people, there's this idea that in part they're thinking about a book as a traditional book. So it's broad and covers a lot of things in some degree of detail. So there's a breadth perspective that people come with and we're often saying people, okay, it's depth more than breadth that you're interested in, particularly for this as a product. So, as far as the clarity piece goes and the job that we're trying to do is really to get that down to 10 words, so it really hits the mark. For people Is one of the biggest problems that they have this idea of dialing it in and being as specific as they need to be, and it's kind of philosophically the idea that they struggle with. Or is it more mechanical in the sense of they accept the idea but all of the language that we use and the way that they're taught is very difficult to be narrowing in the language. Is it more philosophical or mechanical?

Mitchell: I'm leaning towards philosophical as the. I'm leaning towards philosophical as the. There's a psychological thing. So let me talk about me and my CPOP for a second. We'll talk about you and your CPOP, right so, with who I am and what I do in my executive coaching business, I have seven slots allocated for executive coaching. The clients I work with are typically CEOs of companies that are running entities between 10 and a hundred million. Because I'm in Silicon Valley, that's a great fit for me.

I about I think it was three weeks ago, four weeks ago I closed my eighth slot, so I'm not actually aggressively looking for any more, although you know that's when the right person comes by and says and I'm like for you, yes, of course, right. So so that said my, my CPOP for that is not the one that I'm primarily using, but my CPOP when I was primarily focused on executive coaching and publishing, focused on executive coaching and publishing my CPOP was four words. It was CEOs flying like eagles. So those four words are powerful and very cool. And what makes me different than any other executive coach? What makes me different than anyone else? Right, and although I think I know what it is, it's not always easy for other people in the marketplace.

Stuart: Right.

Mitchell: So when I realized clarity comes first versus when I was really focused on the credibility piece, when I realized clarity comes first, I realized I needed an audience where I could absolutely show an ROI. And it was an audience I was already playing with because I'm part of the Marshall Goldsmith 100 coaches and I get to see how all these coaches operate like behind the scenes. And it popped in my mind. So there's an organization called ICF, the International Coaching Federation. They are the grand organization that gives certification to all these other coaching organizations that are certified authors, not authors. Sorry, are certifying authors, not authors? Sorry, certifying coaches. So the interesting part is they do a biannual survey and in that survey they had specifically said now around the world, they have studies I don't know the numbers in the UK, in the US, what they said is there are over 100,000 executive coaches with an average salary of $50,000. I couldn't get that number out of my head and when I started thinking about what should my CPOP be today, the word that came out of my mouth as the who I was going to serve is not the word that I ever expected to be uttering, because why would I narrow myself, to be just so narrow? The word is coaches. By the way, why would I be so narrow in terms of that? And the answer is well, it's easy to demonstrate an ROI. I'll focus on this vertical first and then move to another vertical, and so my current CPOP is eight words coaches who've created a job, not a business. And as you know, stuart, what we're teaching when we bring people through our clarity session is not only to have that CPOP, but to be able to do the tell me more. So let me spend a minute, or less than a minute. I'll do the tell me more. So what happens? And, by the way, if you're an author, particularly an author who has published a book from 90-minute books, almost by definition, you also have a part of your business. That's coaching. You're either directly a coach or partly your business. The product or service requires some sort of coaching.

What has happened with coaches is you've been trained a methodology. What has happened with coaches is you've been trained a methodology. You've been trained a methodology to specifically transform a company or an individual and move them from A to B, but what you've not been trained is actually how to run a business as an entrepreneur, how to have a continuous set of conversations where you're building referral partners who refer you, how you're continually having your customers refer you referral partners who refer you, how you're continually having your customers refer you, how you basically have a calendar full of people who you're enjoying talking to and many of them turn into clients. We have a done with you program that does that with you. So that's probably about 40, 45 seconds. You got a good feeling of who I am and what I do, because the playground coaches, who've created a job, not a business, is very well articulated yeah when you oh, and by the way, to answer your direct question, I psychologically it took me a long time to go.

Yeah, okay, I'm just gonna say coaches. By the way, the eighth executive coaching client came after I was saying coaches. That didn't stop that person from saying, hey, listen, I'm still interested. So it yeah so, but psychologically I'm like, oh, I'm going to kill my executive coaching business. No, no, it still works yeah.

Stuart: I think as well that's for the people who it doesn't resonate with. So any risk of losing people, the likelihood of those being converting clients, is probably slimmer anyway. There's always this concern about losing a potential client but the reality of that person converting is probably pretty slim because whether or not you have that clarity, all of your actions and everything that you do leads towards a particular direction. Anyway. It's just without having that clarity direction anyway, it's just without having that clarity. It's kind of a shotgun in that general direction rather than a laser focus on a particular target. So this idea that people are going to lose out on this whole potential market, I think the reality of converting those people is pretty slim. And what I like about the c-pop that you've got there coaches who've created a was it a job? Oh?

it's a job job rather than a job rather than a business. I mean this whole, the nuance around that language, or the emotional message that is in the subtext. That's in that message is hey, you're doing all of the work, you're doing all the work anyway, but what you've actually created is something that isn't going to leverage your scale in the way that you want, and the thing to move it from A to B is not going and doing something else. You're doing the right thing, you're just doing it in an ineffective way. So to be able to have that, I think what comes from the additional benefit, that comes from the clarity, is the ability to layer in some of the emotional language or the resonator, the things that are really going to capture the attention. Like we started saying, gets the opportunities to hit the people.

Mitchell: Well, this is really interesting, right? So when I wear that hat not my publisher hat when I wear the hat, I look at the service you have right, and that service, but that price point is different than my service and my price point, and it is clearly something that some of the coaches that I'm working with actually need. So if I am of service to others ie coaches and they need that service, I'm going to bring you into the fold. It just makes obvious sense, right, and there's a couple of things to do. But can I share your CPAP or do you want to share your CPAP? I'll put it in chat, because this is what really resonated with me when you and I were talking, and do you want to say it?

Stuart: Because it's yours, yeah, so we're helping or looking for business owners using. If we edited the podcast, I'd edit myself, tripping over my own c-pop oh no, keep it as it is the authenticity business owners using conversation starting books. It's the the separation between books and people thinking of them in a traditional sense to the conversation starting book. It's the. Yeah, I like it because it shares some passion, it shares an outcome as part of the words.

Mitchell: If you don't mind, I will share your CPOP and tell me more, right? Because then?

Stuart: you have it on replay right.

Mitchell: So one of my superpower steward is when I know somebody's CPOP and it really is there, I could feel their energy. I can do the tell me more, regardless of what it is. In this particular case, I could actually do it with feeling, because I live this one as well. I just never articulated it this way when I was a publisher. It was very obvious. When we came up with this fee, I'm like, oh yeah, that is the right, that is exactly the right thing. But at the moment, that's your CPAP I don't need. That's not for me, right. So typically what happens is you could, if people know what the word CPAP is, you could say what's my CPOP? But maybe somewhere between 50 to 100,000 people know, so not enough. So what often happens is you could say something like clients that are attracted to me or clients I'm attracted to. Your case, it's clients that are attracted to me, business owners, using a conversation starting book. Let me tell you what that means.

A lot of people have been taught and we've grew up thinking we need to create the book, the be all end of all, the book that solves all problems, that instantly I get to appear on the major talk shows and clients will start flocking my way. The truth is, book publishing is democratized and that will not happen. The chances of that happening is like the chances of winning the lotto. So what do you use a book for? You're using a book so that, when you give it to your prospect, knows the word give. When you give it to your prospect, you've started a conversation and that conversation can end with the client actually buying from me. Well, that's what I do. I work with business owners who need another step up, an advantage, to be able to get the people they're talking to to want to buy from them, and we do it in a quick and easy approach.

Stuart: Yeah, and that level of obviously, like you said, the unique ability that you've got to dial in the tell me more the clients, the thing that stops people in their tracks, initially, and then that next level of detail, the language and the cadence and the the resonance that you bring to it is a unique ability that you've got and it's something that a lot of other people, including me, would struggle with. But to be able to go through the process to get it dialed in and then refine it over time, even if the words are right the first time, the delivery is important as well. But that visibility that it brings to what you do in a short period of time, that doesn't sound like an elevator pitch, it's not close, it's share. It's such a unique difference. And again, the reason why I really wanted to share this podcast with people because, as we've got all of the books on the shelves here, I've moved things around the office.

All of these books on the shelves here it's the idea that people can take that asset and then, if it's not created already, have the clarity first, but if it is created and we've helped them a little bit with the clarity, but now they've got a chance to revisit it and bring it into a collected approach to get out there and use it in the real world. So not just build it and they will come. Instead, we've built something. We can refine a message, and now we can get that message out there in lots of different ways, but it has that consistency to it well, so what?

would be the oh sorry I'm sorry, I was going to say, um, what would be the first? We're obviously going to point people towards a place where they can learn more and I want to make sure we definitely get a chance to talk about that because there's a great event coming up that people can learn a lot from. But as people are thinking about this idea now, we've talked some through the book process of dialing in a single target audience. So, at least as far as the book goes, they're pretty attuned. So it's not really a philosophical challenge that they've got, but in terms of refining that message. So, going into the mechanics of it, maybe what are some easy ways that people can do to start thinking about.

Okay, I've got a book that's talking about an individual group of people, a campaign, a target market. I've got the business that I know that I do, and now I hear Mitchell talk about dialing in these words and something called a CPOP. What's the easiest way for them to start taking this and acting on it, doing something with it? Is there a framework for going from accepting the idea to doing a first pass?

Mitchell: you have about four or five questions bundled into that question and and I appreciate that I just want to narrow it down a little bit so I could give you the answer that I think I heard, so so is it they already have a book and they're thinking about their c-pop and what's next? Or help me understand, yeah yeah, sorry.

Stuart: So there's two audiences who are listening. There's the people who have had the idea that a book is a good thing to do but they haven't necessarily done it yet. So for those people they can really go the clarity first route and dial in what their message is, and then a book is and out. The logical acts come further down the track. And there's a second group of people who have written something already. So we've helped them as far as kind of that single target audience goes for the book, but not to the extent of the clarity work that you do. So for both of those. One group has a broad idea and the other has a book already. But I think still from the perspective of dialing in either specifically their CPOP or their clarity message, what's a good way for them to start thinking about the language that goes around it, kind of narrowing it down to eight to 10 words. There's a thought process that goes along with that.

Mitchell: Yeah, got it. Well, I do clarity sessions with people, so that's one of the. You went to that last week. It's a 90 minute session. I guarantee everyone leaves their CPAP. We do have a course right. So we have an hour long asynchronous course. If you just join Credibility Nation, I think you can join it free. It's credibilitynationcom. You join it free for the first month. After that it's $35 a month. You can take the course.

The hard part is that we've been taught all these marketing cookie cutter things we do, and it's hard for us. We've been taught that the first thing out of our mouths need to be the elevator pitch. So think about this. Somebody asks you what you do. Let's be clear, they don't know you yet. They don't give a shit about what you do. What they care about is what can you do for them, what's in for me? We've been taught that when somebody says what do you do, that we talk about us. Well, I mean I do this and I do that, I do this and I do this other thing, and that's not the question they're really asking. So somebody says who are you? What do you do? Anytime you get a chance to pronounce yourself, please throw out the elevator pitch. The elevator pitch is potentially you're telling me more. It's not the first words on your mouth.

When somebody says what do you? Do you as cleanly and as articulate as, with as much clarity as you can articulate, the playground you play in. It's the who and the what. So, in your particular case, business owners, when I answered your tell me more. I was just thinking about what do business owners care about? Right, in your particular case, over a thousand business owners have been able to create a conversation starting book. Now, if you'll notice your CPOP business owners using a conversation starting book, it's a great tool. How much? So? First thing you're doing is you're creating the conversation starting book. Well, what else do you do? And that's what you and I have been talking about on the side, right? So the thing that's fascinating is, once you have clarity, how you get credibility is by how you speak and how you show up online. It's consistent with your clarity. Once you have that, then for those who don't have the book yet, then you go to 90 minutes books and you actually get your book done. Those that have the book you already have an asset that gives you that incremental credibility. So that what comes next is and I really think for those who have been able to have a book, they need to focus on their clarity. They need to have consistent credibility. Then they need to create a client magnet, a product that's in their framework. That's just too easy to say no to, so I'll share. Because I think you're leaning in this direction, I'll share the. This is a framework to think about for everybody and this is what we do with folks. So for those just doing the podcast, step one is getting clarity. 98% of people don't have clarity. It's kind of hard to buy credibility when you don't have clarity, although that's what everyone does. But once you have clarity, then you can. If you deploy clarity properly, you can get consistent credibility. And you do that by having the words coming out of your mouth and your online presence being consistent with your level of clarity. That gives you and those who may work with you confidence.

What comes next? If you know your audience, if you know who you're going to be playing with? You have your CPOP. You need a micro-commitment, so that is something that's typically $500 or less. That is just too easy for them to say no to, so you need to give them that micro-commitment. Now, in your particular case, stuart us playing together that micro commitment doesn't have to be yours. You could join your prospect in a clarity session so that they can get their CPOP. And once they have their CPOP, then they write the book with you. Right, that micro commitment doesn't have to be. We've been taught that we need to own our clients forever and once we get them, we don't let them go. But that's not how humans want to act, that's not how you want to act. So you can use other people's micro-commitment to then.

What you do, stuart, is to become that community superhero. Once people experience you step number three then they're going to want more. And when they want more, how do you make a more robust community where you're really playing inside the playground you play in? So the book is probably just the start of the conversation starters. And what comes after that, what comes before that? How else do you play in a community? And so, for anyone who has a book existing, what's your CPOP? If you now articulate your CPOP now, cpop's, who and what? Who do you serve? One, two or three words and the what is simply the pain point or pleasure point. They experience the whole thing. Less than 10 words, it doesn't matter who you are. Less than 10 words, period, okay. And I have people say, oh, but I do this and it okay, let's let's yeah I've never been able to.

Not be able to give it doesn't mean people accept it. Once you accept the, the place you play in, being able to then fine-tune your credibility, being able to then share the appropriate micro-commitment product, being able then to attract people around you because you're the right people who want to play in the community that you've created, becomes a whole lot easier.

Stuart:And that cycle of moving through each of the stages. I'll list them out on the podcast notes. I'll just list them out for people who aren't watching the video. Them out on the podcast notes, I'll just list them out for people who aren't watching the video. But those depths of battling in the message of giving people an easy way of getting started, of building the community and leading them to the next logical part of the process, if the idea is that people that we can help the best are there and willing to be clients, willing to be five-star prospects, it's just for, for whatever reason, either there's a credibility gap, or there's a lack of understanding, so the clarity is not quite there, or there's a timing issue, so that they would be, but just not in this particular moment, or there's something that's holding them back.

Each of those elements just ticks off one of those points and it's do you remember the game Buckaroo Like when we were kids? It was like a little plastic donkey thing and you'd load it up with different picks and shovels and at some point would be the trigger point where it all flicked off. It's the same as that. You can never know. As a business owner, you can never know whether it's five buckets and three shovels or one bucket and two shovels, it's going to be the tipping point that kind of takes them over the fence into becoming a client. All we can do is be in control of putting more of those elements on the back of the donkey and want to pat myself on the back for some weird analogy that kind of played out. It's the thing, that's the only thing we've got control of. We don't know when someone it's going to be the day for them, we can. When it's going to be the day for them, we can just keep ticking these points. And that's what I really like about the framework, because the book is great at ticking two or three or five of those elements. But the rest of the framework then contributes to all the rest of it.

And the confidence element that is in there between steps two and three. That confidence element both in confidence involves putting the message out there and confidence from the clients that they're in the right place, because I often think that it's people make a pretty quick decision about whether they want to work with you or not. But then it's this confidence balance see-through of okay, yeah, I'm in the right place. Okay, I still think I'm in the right place, I'm getting closer to the checkout, but then anything that knocks their confidence will just reset them back to the beginning. So again, overall, that that circle, that lifestyle, it really brings it together. Make sure we have time to talk about the coaching fest that's coming up, because that the timing of this is is pretty perfect. I think that, as a place that people can go to to get more, more understanding, to get more learning, it's a pretty big event. Talk a little bit about that, because I really want to encourage everyone to jump on board and attend there.

Mitchell: Yeah, we should have said this at the beginning, but maybe you could just pull a clip out. So, given the CPOP I plan, it made a lot of sense to pull some of the best coaching voices in the industry to be able to have a two-day summit. So it's a free event. It's called coachingfestcom. Stuart, put in your affiliate link in the notes right and the opportunity here is some of the best voices who are talking about well, do what you love and the money will follow.

Craft what you do, that you love doing. How do you provide a service in such a way and what do you charge for it? How do you write content for your website? What should it look like? What should be? What should not be? What are content? How do you write good, compelling content? What's your brand? How do you show up as your brand? That and so much more. Now, if you're not officially calling yourself a coach, if you substitute, each one of the people I spoke with gave a half hour interview, and so, as I was thinking about the audience of someone who's created a job, not a business, the types of questions I asked were all focused around the types of things you can do. Now, if I was a marketing guy, I'd tell you to put your business on autopilot. But you don't want to put your business on autopilot. You want to be able to play in the playground where you're enjoying it every day right.

that's what the people I encouraged to to join me for speaking, and the people who the responses they gave were so powerful, even if you just went to one or two sessions. So it's coachingfestcom is a great way to learn and grow, and that's coming up at the end of this month. I'll do two other micro summits, but this particular one is focused on how do you show up in such a way that, particularly as a coach, how do you show up in such a way that is strong, is powerful, is something where people are not just being attracted to you, but you have a referring community who's referring you as well.

Stuart: I think it's such a perfect analogy for what we were talking about before, in the sense of you've picked the target audience. The CPOP is talking to the people who the playground that you want to play in, which is coaches, but the people who can also enjoy being on the swing or enjoy going on the side are all of the other business owners out there who are listening to this today. Everyone who's listening to this has raised their hand or expressed an interest in writing a book to build their business, of amplifying their message and engaging more of their clients in a way that really resonates with the service that they can. Expressed an interest in writing a book to build their business, of amplifying their message and engaging more of their clients in a way that really resonates with the service that they can provide. So, just as you said, whether you're a coach or any other type of business owner, substitute out that word for the information that's being shared, and what you'll learn, or have the opportunity to learn, is a huge set of of frameworks and ways of thinking about things that can benefit whatever business that you're in now. You, the we'll put the link in the show notes as, just as we were talking, I'm not sure whether we talked about this before but, as we were talking, I think, if we can, we've got a link that shows people come from this call, so what we'll do as well, we'll be able to see who those people are. I'll reach out to those people afterwards and I'll probably do a call with those guys, just do like a q a call, where we'll talk about what happened in the event in the context of a book and really help people dial in those ideas and then obviously, they've got lots of opportunities to to learn more about you and what you do and follow that path as well, and those the two paths, are so complementary.

I think it really is a a pretty special opportunity and the timing has worked really well that we are a couple of weeks away from the events, so that people can if they've got a book already, they can just find ways to amplify and leverage it in all sorts of new, consistent ways. And if they've been thinking about a book but they haven't quite pulled the trigger, then this idea of the credibility and the clarity and some of the other things that the speakers in all sorts of new, consistent ways. And if they've been thinking about a book, but they haven't quite pulled the trigger. Then this idea of the credibility and the clarity and some of the other things that the speakers will talk about. They're dialing in this message and then using a book as a tool that again just amplifies and leverages all of the things that they've learned in the summit. Perfect timing, good summary, fantastic. Talking about perfect timing, I realized I didn't even look at the clock when we started recording, but I'm pretty sure we are we went a little bit over.

That's good, all good stuff. As people are watching and listening, I'll make sure that the show notes in either the podcast player or, if people are getting the email, there'll be the links to the show notes there. Any last words or advice for people? I'm sure over the years of experience you've had people who come back years later where they've thought about doing this but they haven't got around to it. The same happens for us. Any words of encouragement to kind of remind people to pull the trigger now and and not let this sit on the back burner, apart from the fact that the event is going to happen at the end of the month, so that ship's going to sail anyway.

Mitchell: In terms of pull the trigger on getting your book or pull the trigger on coming to the event.

Stuart: Well, I guess both, but the event was the main thing. I thought, kind of learning more about what you do and your world, yeah, you know, but yes, they should also write that book.

Mitchell: I think there's. We're all looking for the hidden secret we're all looking for and so many people are selling these pipe dreams of the easy button. And I'm going to say it's extremely simple, it's just not easy. And so by going to coaching fast, you're going to see a lot of people who are very successful. And when you hear fundamentally why they're successful and you start feeling that you see the playgrounds they're playing in, you see what they're doing and how they're doing it successfully and you want that for yourself.

And then, by the way, if you do make a decision to go to 90-minute books, just make sure that Stuart doesn't start step number three until he's worked with you or brought you along to get your CPOP. Because if you have your clarity first and you want to make sure your website, your social presence, is in alignment with it, then you have this asset right and the asset is just complementary to everything else. And, by the way, you can create a summary of your book and that could be your micro-commitment product that you get ready for free even before you write the book. So it's a very interesting opportunity here for you to focus on what's really important who do you serve, what is it and how do they want to be served. How do you reach them in such a way where they're excited about you and how do you get people who go? You know what I need to recommend you to somebody else, because that's exactly something they want to focus on, and focusing on referral partners really powerful.

Stuart: Yeah, such a fantastic opportunity and I really it was such a thin thread that connected us in the first place a month or so ago and really it's a sign that the universe kind of brings people together at the right point. So the fact that we're having this conversation in enough time for people to sign up and join the free coaching fest, I think it really is great. Perfect timing, mitchell. Thank you, buddy, I really appreciate it. Uh, everyone, thanks for listening. I'll make sure that all of the notes are in the, all the links in the show notes, so check those out and then we'll catch everyone next time.

Mitchell: Sounds great. Thanks for having me, Stuart.