Today on the Book More Show, we are joined again by Heidi Ardis, founder and CEO of Agape Wealth, a Mississippi-based financial services company helping people all over the country plan a better retirement.

We got to dive deeper into her story, from a corporate advisor role to starting her own company, and how that gave her the flexibility and time to really understand each of her clients and their unique situations.

The conversation then turned to the opportunity of amplifying her voice and how that underpins her quality client relationships.

In a competitive space like financial advisors, it can be difficult to stand out, but her books, emails, and really all the ways she interacts with people allow her to share her approach and let potential clients say, 'Yes, I want to work with Heidi'.

In a world where the barrier to creating content is getting lower every day, amplifying your perspective is the only way to separate yourself from the crowd.

SHOW HIGHLIGHTS

1. Stuart catches up with Heidi Ardis about her transition from corporate wealth management to founding her own firm, Agape Wealth, and how it aligns with her focus on family, faith, and finance.

2. Heidi describes the personal and professional benefits of starting Agape Wealth, including improved work-life balance and deeper client relationships.

3. We explore the importance of confidence in financial advisors and the challenges they face, such as simplifying financial jargon and managing product knowledge.

4. Stuart shares insights on client discomfort with financial services and the necessity for advisors to foster a transparent environment where clients feel comfortable asking questions.

5. Heidi emphasizes the dynamics of financial conversations within couples and the importance of involving both partners in financial planning.

6. Stuart discusses the use of written materials, like books, to reinforce credibility and set the direction for financial conversations with clients.

7. We examine how digital tools and strategic follow-ups can enhance client relationships, including the use of apps to help clients visualize their financial plans.

8. Stuart and Heidi consider the effectiveness of annual reviews and the need for consistent communication to maintain trust, especially with out-of-state clients.

9. Heidi shares strategies for engaging specialized communities, like military families, with tailored financial advice and leveraging assets like books for marketing.

10. We discuss the significance of organic referrals in growing a financial advisory business and how providing excellent service leads to clients becoming advocates.

    LINKS 
    Heidi Ardis - LinkedIn
    Agape Wealth

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TRANSCRIPT
(AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors)

Stuart: Hey everyone, welcome back to the Book More show. It's Stuart Bell here and today, excited to be joined back again by Heidi Ardis. Heidi, how are you doing?

Heidi: How are you?

Stuart: Very good. Thank you, I was just saying before we recorded. I still have some kind of COVID. Reign in that time is a flexible elastic band and it seems like it was ages since we spoke, but actually it was only a couple of months, so excited to check in and see how things are going.

Heidi: Things have been going well and, yes, it's that time of year and everybody seems to be sick.

Stuart: Do you know, my folks were across from the UK and we're up in Pennsylvania, the offices down in Florida, my brother's down in Florida as well, so parents managed to survive flights flying in here but get down to Florida and everyone was sick down there. So then the left went back to the UK and people were sick there and it's definitely that time of year in the northern hemisphere.

Heidi: That's correct.

Stuart: yes, yeah, it goes fast, okay, so let's give people a quick update or circle back. Not everyone listens to all of the past shows, so let's start with a quick recap of you and Agape in the business, and then we can go into the book and talk about what's happened since we last spoke.

Heidi: Yep, so I've been in wealth management financial advising since about 2006. And this year, in 2023, opened my own firm, agape wealth, really as a faith based decision to kind of move into the realm of having a business that focused on my faith, family and finance and doing that for my clients. So, in turn, here we are with this, and so one of the things we really focus on here is retirement income planning and distribution of wealth. And how do you do that efficiently for Texas, for estates, and so you know it was recommended to me to write a book on that. So so we did. We wrote the simplified strategies for retirees how to defend and distribute wealth with proper planning and so that led me to the 90 minute books and into you.

Stuart: And here we are. That so 2023. When in this year did you start and prior to that, was it more corporate based financial planning for one of the bigger firms?

Heidi: So this coming started in March of 2023. Prior to that, I had worked in an independent firm for about four years, but before that, yes, was mostly corporate.

Stuart: Yeah, I think it's always an interesting journey that leads people through kind of realises. You hear kind of like a similar story of increasingly more going more and more independent away from the bigger houses, financial visors. It definitely happens for those people who have got that by the kicked out of the nest sometimes, who are kind of drawn to being more independent. I think last time we were talking we were diving a little bit into that benefit of being on your own and stealing your own ship and just having more time for individual clients, relationship based, the opportunity to be more relationship based with people. Kind of eight months down the track now, is that really what you found? You do you get that extra time with people, unlike a bigger firm.

Heidi: Yes, I mean, it has been not only a lifestyle change for me, because you think, when you go to open your own company, that you're going to be busier, and what I have found is that my life in general has gotten better and therefore I'm able to give more to my clients, because if my daughter, who is in you, know soccer and she's on a travel team, if she has a game, I don't have to think about whether I'm going to be able to go or not.

I get to be a part of their lives and, in turn, I want my clients to feel that. And so, yeah, it's been an amazing transition that you know I'm building something that is personally rewarding in terms of my own household, with my kids, who are my son is almost a teenager and my daughter is a teenager, so you know we're in those years. But also we drink coffee together and I tell them I'm like, listen, I am not booking out tons and tons of appointments every day. I have open space throughout the day. If you want to come by and see me, I'm available for you. So they don't feel that I'm not attainable to them.

Stuart: Right. It kind of breaks it from that nine to five. This is office hours in see, we're trying to be flexible both for family and for clients and do what works for them. Such a great opportunity. It kind of disconnects that just arbitrary clock into something that's more kind of flexible. And he says I think people across the board appreciate it more because they're not necessarily just on nine to five customers now. They're just not on nine to five timeframes either. They're just much more used to working or having access to people in a place and and manage it fits them better.

Heidi: Or feeling like they're in, can be their advisor by coming by and wanting to chat with them. You know I don't want people to feel that way and so we've really created that environment and even if I am in a meeting, They'll come in and they'll sit down and you know the girls in the office will go out and hang out and you know they don't feel like their jobs are sitting at their computer. You know their job to be a part of the clients and know who they are.

Stuart: It's so funny, is there when you think back. So I'm out of my 48, so 28 years, 20, 30 years working that kind of timeframe, and I can remember the early jobs before email. I mean even working for pretty big companies back in the time it was really the first job, at least, was pre email. So you think in the cadence of that work and the activities that were done day by day it's definitely not connected to a device. So I think an immediate reply it's much more having that little bit of extra time to deal with things as the day progresses.

Yeah such a better lifestyle choice and more rewarding than being locked in a cubicle for certain Correct.

Heidi: Exactly.

Stuart: So the work and the approach. So the retirement planning and that being a big element of people's interest in financial planning generally, it's obviously their end goal. For most people is they're thinking about it, perhaps after houses, taking care of and as people's, people's interest in financial planning towards that stage, the conversations that you have with clients and their understanding of retirement planning. I'm always interested to people. Are you having conversations with people where they're a knowledgeable audience and it's very technical, or is it going to introduce the ideas to them and almost a holistic, broad perspective, give them the guidance and help steer the ship, but they're not necessarily interested in the technical details, or is it, as I say, more technically oriented and they're kind of diving into the details? What's your experience?

Heidi: with clients they're probably 80 to 85% is more of a holistic, non technical approach, because that would be the population at all. They really just want to know where am I, where are we going and how is it going to function and does it work for my life? So you know, looking at the broader picture, you know we run a lot of reports. Obviously that'll be really in depth, but then it's. You know we're not going to go into those reports. If you want that data or more than happy to give that to you. But really my approach is to show them okay, here's where you're currently at, here's when you want to retire, this is how much you can have in retirement and never run out of money If we do these things, and this is how we're going to draw the income and this is how we're going to live off of it.

And that's what most people are looking for is really just the roadmap. They don't need to know how the internal workings of Google and the Google Maps is. They just want to know that when they put in a destination, they're going to reach it. But then you know there are some clients who are very technical. You know more of the engineers and people of the world, and so with those people, you, as the advisor, need to be knowledgeable enough about what you're presenting to be able to answer their questions and to be able to back it up with the data.

Stuart: That's actually a great point. It's the confidence that people are looking for. There's a certain expectation, I think, that everyone no matter whether they're a doctor or marketing company or financial advisor there's the expectation that everyone's got when working with someone that you know your job and you can do the outcome. I think that having confidence and the personal connection that you're the right person and of all the people that they could choose, they're happy and comfortable that they've chosen you. So being able to not necessarily start off with those details but have them there to hand if people question and drill down, that really kind of bridges that gap between not getting stuck in the weeds and scaring the majority of people away, but also providing that value and guidance and helpful resource for the people, no matter what their level is, either the introductory or the detailed.

Heidi: Yeah, I think it's probably the number one biggest problem in this industry is that financial advisors do not know what they are doing, and most of them are just doing what they're told. They don't research for themselves, they just trust that when their owner of the company or the owner of the corporation says here's this what you should sell or here's what you should do because this person's 35 or 45 and they have this much money, and you know, they put everybody in a box and they don't go out and read the contracts or look through the data for themselves and truly understand what they're doing. And then when they have that hard client that starts asking them questions, they can't answer it and so but that's probably a lot of people in the world they just kind of they're told.

Stuart: Right, I just kind of I don't know if this is insulting or derogatory, but I was going to say it's kind of like the paycheck mentality of just going in and doing a job and I'm here to just follow the instructions and not necessarily have the interest or the exploratory nature to go in and find out what the real situation is behind the scenes.

Heidi: I wonder if that's self-selecting About money, so you can make a lot of money and not really have to work as hard.

Stuart: And so that's what I'm saying Self-selecting across the kind of people who are in those financial advisors versus the independent guys who are more interested in the subject and not just executing on paycheck and rolling through clients within a small window and then just getting on to the next one.

Heidi: Yeah, and there's even independent firms. That I think it's a problem, because you have a large independent firm and you got, you know, seven or eight or nine advisors in one office and then it becomes pretty similar to a corporate office. Right, that's true, so you know it's like you just really, as someone who are out searching for the right person, need to make sure that you are confident in the person sitting in front of you, that they are knowledgeable.

Stuart: Yeah, do you find that with clients who come in? Is the clients understand that problem and know the challenges of working with someone who's just kind of a cookie cutter trying to put them in the mold, or are they more coming in and kind of expressing a dissatisfaction maybe not getting the personal attention that they need? What am I trying to ask, kind of like from the client's perspective? Do they know what the problem is or do they just have a feeling that it's not quite working with other places?

Heidi: I think it's both. I think they feel like they're trying to communicate with their current advisor, or they've sat down with a few people and they're just not feeling like that person's giving them what they need. But also they may not be able to pinpoint exactly why or what that is, but they just kind of know that something's not right. But then they also people don't like saying no. So then you know you're sitting in an office and you're like well, these people have a thousand clients, like what's wrong with me?

Stuart: that I don't have a good fit.

Heidi: But just because a firm has a lot of clients or has a big operation does not mean that they are good at their jobs, I mean, or that they're going to give you a one on one personalized financial plan. It just means that you know they've done good. I mean, walmart brings in a lot of clients Doesn't mean that they're the best place to go.

Stuart: Right, it's such a great point, isn't it? People's kind of perception of, well, everyone is the crowd mentality, everyone else is doing this. It must be me, not them. I think the other thing, kind of being on the side of, I might have mentioned last time my background is in IT for financial services organizations. So there was a period of time that I was doing the financial services authority in the UK would do some financial education workshops in and around the country. I did some in London.

So we go into workplaces and then talk to a group of 15 or 20 people just about some of the basics nothing too in depth, but even trying to talk about so savings accounts, the IRA equivalents in the UK, pensions generally, just the fact that employers might be matching contributions and the certain restrictions, but the main different definitions of defined contribution and defined benefit plans. Even at that relatively straightforward level we try to keep it easy to consume. You can still see people glazing out because, although technically it's not complicated, I don't know whether it's a lack of confidence for people and they just feel like this is a complicated thing and I can't handle it, I'm not equipped, or whether it's a lack of interest and it's too scary or daunting and they almost put in the shutters up. Do you find that as well, talking to your clients, or your clients tend to be more engaged because they are looking for someone with a more personal connection and an educated view on things.

Heidi: So what I have found is generally, especially if people are married, one is very engaged and the other one is completely non engaged. So it's like if you're sitting in front of a group of 15 people, maybe three or four of them are going to be really paying attention and the rest of them are thinking, well, my spouse does that, or this isn't something that I need to worry about right now, and or I'm terrible with money, so I'm not even going to listen, because it's this internal struggle of well, I'm not going to do it right anyway.

Stuart: So I'm not even going to try, it's not even trying.

Heidi: So I think that if know what I try to do, especially because normally you know, I live in South Mississippi, so normally the male is the one who runs the finances, and I just think that's just kind of like a generational thing, where the guy works and the wife works, but not necessarily on the same level or whatever, and so the man will come in and he just thinks he's going to dominate the conversation of what we're going to do.

And this is where we're going, and for me it's extremely important to engage the wife. Listen, more than likely he's going to die first, based on data and statistics, and then this is going to be on you. Even though you may not feel it's important, it's going to be important to you. So we at least want you to be engaged in the conversation, know what we're doing and why it's for your benefit, so that, because we do have a lot of males around here, especially we have a lot of military bases, so there's a lot of pensions and we need to make sure, if there's not a full survivorship benefit, how are we going to make up for that? So I think you need to engage those people that do not feel that this is their problem or are uncomfortable, because in doing that you really are able to make the dynamic of the conversation and the plan better.

Stuart: And, as you say, particularly with those statistics on who's likely to be the surviving spouse. It's very real. I often think that we moved house two years ago and there's kind of bits and pieces of things I've done around the house that I know where the switches are and the breakers are, and even just the physical incarnation of if anything happened to me. There was that sudden realization that I need to make sure that Lucy knows where all of the skeletons in which closets are hidden and where the switches are. From a financial perspective, even more so because it's such a real and can be complicated thing to sort out at the moment of a painful event, of trying to deal with all of the life elements of a spouse passing just to make sure you've got your docks in your row and at least you know the person to go and speak to, which your personal connection with people. Again, that's just adding to that, adding to that service that you provide or the support that you provide for people.

Heidi: Yeah, and with the baby boomers. I mean, we're in a generation where they are now dealing with this on a level from their own parents, who their parents did not necessarily talk to them about money or any financial situation. So their parents pass away and then it's them trying to figure it all out, and so it's a good conversation to have. Are you having these conversations with your spouse? Are you having these conversations with your own children? Not that you have to tell your children specifically how much money they're going to inherit, but are you having the conversation? Hey, if something happens to me or your mom, reach out. This is our financial advisor, this is who we deal with. This is our lawyer, whoever the person is, so that they know who to contact and who has the plan. That it's not all on them, because when someone does pass away, it becomes this big burden on the family if they have no clue what's going on.

Stuart: Yeah, to try and dig through the details at that moment and with all of the conflicting reckons that people have of what conversations they've had with people in the past, it just makes it so difficult the ideas that we've brought together in the book.

So the simplified strategies, the simplified retirement strategies, those starting points for the conversations I was this week's coincidentally been a week of podcast, so I was just recording with someone yesterday and the conversation we were having there was around the fact that the asset now exists. It's a jumping off point for many conversations. So, even if the subject specifically isn't mentioned in the book, it's still the opportunity to use the book as a backup piece, as a as a deeper dive or as a broader context piece. Now that it's been out there for a period of time and you've used it in different ways, do you find that actually I've got a cover let me just make sure that people know what we're talking about. So the cover's up on the screen there for people watching rather than listening. So do you find that now that the book is out there, that there's more opportunities to use it and refer to it then perhaps, when you first were thinking about creating it?

Heidi: Yeah, actually, you know, I've had clients who are existing clients, who come in and they're like, hey, I really want my kids to have your book. And they've actually been coming in and getting them. Or, you know, you can download them from our website, agapewealthcom. But because of that, they're getting their kids now actively engaged in their conversations, because they're like, look, you know, this is my advisor. These are some of the things that she thinks are important and one of those is, you know, starting early. So if you have a client who's 50 and they got kids in their 20s or early 30s, it's a, it's an opening, that dialogue for them. It's also made it where you know people are actually downloading the book and then they're reaching out to us and say, hi, I'd like to come in for a meeting. So it's done that for us as well. But I think it's also with existing clients, given them a level of confidence that you know, while she put these things in writing, she obviously means what she's done.

Stuart: I think that as well, that psychological cues that it gives people. It's not something that we talk about I don't think we talk about it that much but the fact that people will get a copy and then, even if they don't read it word for word or understand it word for word, it still gives them the indication of the direction that you're trying to guide people. And then when they come in and meet you face to face and you're saying the same things, it almost has an amplified power because they're not hearing it from you for the first time. It's almost the fact that what you're saying is reinforcing what they read in a book, even though it's your book. So I think that reinforcement is such a powerful, subliminal element to the fact that people are writing something in the way that they say things, in the way that they believe in the structure, that it really does reinforce it.

And the other thing that you've said that was interesting as well is this idea that it starts other conversations, so with the one person in the relationship being more interested than another, using it to kind of highlight or point out or use that as an introduction to a conversation with a partner or, as you're saying with the kids, introducing the idea to the kids that they want to start early, and there's such a big advantage and this idea that it can be a jumping off point for a conversation and an easy way in just really is a huge advantage to the equivalent of trying to do it. I mean, you could put the same words on a page on a website, but that doesn't have the same authority or it doesn't communicate the same meaning or it doesn't give the opportunities for those conversations in the same way. So let me think about it. Now it exists, it's got an extra benefit.

Heidi: Yep, and I think it has helped you know, just solidify that. One of the main focuses of the book was to empower you as the individual to ask questions of people, get more than one opinion, make sure you're confident, and it also gives you some strategies for those conversations. Hey, if I'm your client, will I be getting X? You know, the point of the book for me at first was really to empower people to ask questions and to be able to say no and understand that this is your money. You know your money. Even though you're entrusting me to guide you, at the end of the day, you have the right to say I don't think this is working, and you shouldn't be embarrassed by that and you should not ever feel guilty for being honest with the person that's working with you.

Stuart: Right, particularly when there's such an important outcome at the end of it. I mean, this is people's for the most part. I think this is people's one main shop. They may have other assets elsewhere. The house is obviously a big asset for some people, but in terms of disposable income to support you through the rest of your life, these decisions made around here, it's not something that ideally you just kind of give away and never think about again and turn up at the end and hope that it all worked because it would be great if it did. But if it didn't then the ship sailed a little bit. So good to check in with.

This idea of having clients who are in it for the long run and maybe aren't as enthusiastically engaged with the subject you mentioned before, about this whole raft of reports that you could share with people, some of which might seem overwhelming. Do you have a feel for what's the right level of information, or have you been able to bundle it together in a way that's easy for people to consume and then, of course, give them more details if they want it? But at least at that first level, in the review meetings that you're doing with people in the check-ins, is there a way that you feel like you've come up with that way of positioning it at the right level so that it is comfortable for them?

Heidi: Yeah, so we have an actual app that people have access to on their phone where all their accounts, whether it be with different companies or wherever they are, can link. You can even link your own personal stuff, so your bank account or your mortgage. You can put all your stuff in one place. And so that particular app, I can go in and we can update your plan. Or you can even go in and do what-if scenarios what if I purchase the camper, what if I want to buy a new house or a second home and it'll help you along the way and so and it's pretty user-friendly. So we have that for our clients, which they like. People like stuff on their phones, but also when you come in.

You know I'm not giving you some hundred-page report. We're going over one or two pages of you know. Here's where we were last year. Here's where we are this year, based on what we predicted last year. Are we on track? And if the answer is yes, has there been any changes that we need to be aware of? You know, until we update, and some people want to come in once a year. Some people want to come in, you know, every three months. Some people want to call me every month, you know, but it just kind of depends on your level of engagement. But for those people that you know, don't really they're like, please just take this and do it. We still are going to make you at least come in once a year At least.

Look at it, you know over the finances and say, hey, here's where we are, things are looking. Okay, you know, let's stay on track. Do you need more money? Do you need less money? How are things feeling? And so we try to keep it simple.

Stuart: Yeah, we often talk with people about you mentioned that people downloading the book and then it's showing employment kind of independent of any other any other action on the team's part. But we often speak to people about when they think about creating a book. Is that path through? So, talking about those reports and the experience that people have when they are clients, always trying to look for ways of replicating that in that journey when people are self selecting themselves. So illustrations are something which is big in the UK for financial planners but they're pretty restricted on what you can show and of dubious value. Sometimes it gets a little bit same. But those people who opt in for a copy of the book and then you have their email details, do you have a follow up sequence with them so that they are receiving additional things until they the points right for them that they raise their hand, or is it a pretty short path where they're downloading a copy and then just coming in pretty quick?

Heidi: Well, I mean typically, if you're downloading the book, well, you're putting in your name, your email address, your phone number and then there's a comments section, and so most of them are asking at that point for us to reach out.

Stuart: Yeah.

Heidi: So, but if they don't, if they just download it and all they do is give us their information, then we will email them thanking them for downloading the book and let them know. We'll call them in a week or so to see how they liked it and if they would like to set an appointment at that point. The next step?

Stuart: yeah, do you have. It's super interesting actually that people are requesting it and a meeting in that they're like immediately thinking about taking that next step. I think that's probably.

Heidi: We had two just in the last week that downloaded it and requested meetings at the same time.

Stuart: Actually that's super interesting.

So the majority of time that we're talking to people, we're talking about those digital downloads in a kind of name address, download it and then follow up with an email sequence and, within that email sequence, make some offers then or suggestions that they take next step and come in.

But wording the form that includes a comment or which area you're most interested in or what can we help you with or what you're struggling with, adding that as a field to the form, might well be an accelerator to that journey, which I'm going to start stealing and I'll give you credit for the idea. But yeah, that is really something that we haven't. I don't think. I mean, I know some people do it, but it's definitely not something that we talk about because we're really thinking about this longer term. But maybe the expense of those people who are immediately ready to go now, for those ones who are immediately ready to start or respond to something when you reach out, it's the first step that they really need to come in. There isn't really a self-serving step in between coming in. Is the first interaction meaningful interaction? Really they need to have a meeting with you as an impersonal on Zoom to actually go through some numbers, or is it more of a kind of theoretical conversation where you're just talking about general direction?

Heidi: So the first conversation is typically with one of the other people that work in the office and they're contacting them, asking them questions that you know and then that kind of prompts would you like to have a meeting with Heidi and the advisor to discuss your concerns? You know, and we can either set that up as a phone call or a Zoom or an in-person meeting. You know whatever they want. We have a lot of clients that are out of state, so they usually will do a Zoom meeting. So for us I think it's kind of just contacting them and saying, hey, well, we know you've read the book or you've done the book. You know what was that about it, that you had concerns, questions, comments, that kind of thing, and so that's one of the team members that will do that, and then after that they'll set a meeting with me.

Stuart: Yeah, you mentioned that out of state ones we were. I think we were talking last time about the military families because of that kind of disbursement effect of people getting relocated, redeployed elsewhere. How much of a challenge is it, or is it no challenge at all? The difference between those local clients versus the remote ones? Is it pretty seamless? Or is there a difference in approach, apart from the fact they're not going to pop in?

Heidi: So I think the only differences we need to be more actively engaged a little bit in terms of when they do become a client, that process of when the money's transitioning, because that can be a four to six week process. So if you don't have any interaction, you know physically, and you've never, like actually sat down with a person in person, sometimes that can be a little scary. So I think keeping those people a little bit more actively engaged you know, making phone calls and making sure that we're more engaged on the process of hey, everything's fine. You know this is just a process, it takes a little bit of time for transitions to happen would be mainly the difference. But other than that, you know we try to keep things pretty much the same.

Stuart: And such a great point of identifying where those pain points are ahead of time and kind of getting ahead of the curve, because I can imagine that scenario where people are busy doing other things and then they're transferring a significant amount of their future and then crickets from other organizations or this is just what it is. We're getting in touch with you and it's all sorted out. And knowing those ahead of time and kind of smoothing the path again. It's just that difference between being a number in a big accounting system versus being an individual that you're working with and building that relationship.

Heidi: And that's probably the one thing that we're very good at is getting to people's pain before they ever communicate it, you know, and letting them know. We understand we've been through this before. But if you are ever feeling uncomfortable in any way, reach out. You know. Don't feel like we're not able to be attainable in the same day or within the same hour of when you are feeling something. Don't ever let that fester. Just call up and you know we'll make sure to go over any and everything with you.

Stuart: Yeah, put your mind at ease as quick as possible. As soon as the thought or concern is there, get it sorted out.

Heidi: Yeah, because it's scary, you know, I mean yeah whether you got a hundred thousand dollars or a million dollars or five million dollars, you know that's all relative to the individual and what matters to them, and so you're moving someone's life savings. That's a scary process for them.

Stuart: Yeah, yeah, 100%. The money is 100%, no matter what the actual dollar amount. One of the conversations that I had earlier this week was talking about using the book, since slightly using it as that asset, but then topic bridging into it. So we talked earlier about using it, the fact that it exists now it's kind of finding its own way out into the world in different ways.

But this idea of topic bridging from the conversations that are out there to the subjects that are in the book. So the example that springs to mind with your client groups, the kind of local people and the military people, their interests there's a commonality obviously in the products and the services and what you're trying to do for them, but there there's a certain amount of their motivations and their restrictions or constraints that are pretty different. But the subject of the book kind of covers both of those. If you had opportunity, if someone is coming in with a specific set of questions, for example the military families, where they're dealing with the different agencies that they have to work with and how that ties in with their retirement elements have there been opportunities to create other assets, yet other talking points around those pain points, but then bridge it into the book. So reaching out to groups where that's a problem and then talking about the book as a thing.

Heidi: Yeah, I would say the majority of that kind of stuff, whether it be military or even college professors, teachers, firefighters they're all dealing with some sort of governmental agency which is not always the easiest people to work with. And so letting them know hey, we've worked with them multiple times, we know how to fill the paperwork out. Please just bring it by, we'll do it together. It'll make the process a lot simpler and we can log into whatever the system is, and then also saying hey, by the way, if you're in the military and you're going to move your TSP account, your wife or your husband, they have to sign off on that. So they're going to get an email, they have to agree to the transfer because it's a communal asset and them knowing that we know these things before they're going to happen, you know, builds the confidence and you know, same thing in the book, we kind of talk about that. You know, letting your asking questions of your advisor and seeing if they know how the process is really going to function and whether they understand those things.

Stuart: I wonder if there's opportunities and again, it's always a balance of the effort versus the reward but being able to do things like a simple web page that you could point the military families to that has a video of you talking about some of the military specific differences. And then so, by the way, the next step, download a copy of the book, because that covers some of the broader strategies and things that you need to be asking people. But all of these things, now that the main asset exists, just kind of like feeding the top of the funnel with something specific. Again, just to make that connection, the book exists now, so all of these extended ways of using it and leveraging it again, effort versus reward, but for those bigger groups of communities, might well be my goal can't speak might well be worth following on something like that.

Heidi: And then create even like a video blog on the website that would talk specifically to those groups.

Stuart: Yeah, because I think it just it closes that gap even one more step. So it's probably not worth I mean, it might be at some point in the future but it's not worth today creating a whole other book for that particular funnel, but just to be able to to top and tail it slightly with something that's specific. It's yeah, just trying to leverage those assets as much as possible and then the best. So companies set up in March, the relationships you've got with those people who were early clients, from guessing to a certain degree came from previous relationships, but those early clients into the new clients and so it was that in terms of referrals and people's willingness to share your service with other people, has that been an easy conversation and obvious thing that people are doing, or is that a little bit? Is there any resistance from people because they are talking about finances and it's maybe they're not comfortable with it?

Heidi: Actually, I would say about 90% of my business is coming from referrals and that is because when someone comes in and they actually feel comfortable and confident in their person, they're telling other people about it. So you know they're calling me up, hey, I told my friends they'll be calling. Or you know it's not even me prompting the conversation most of the time. My clients are now prompting those conversations with me and if they don't, then I'll just say you know, hey, if you know anybody that could benefit from you, just let me know and they'll be like yeah, you know so, and so I would say that the bulk of my business and the growth is referral based and that's just because people enjoy.

You know what we're doing. It's different.

Stuart: Right, yeah, great service and a great team and they're feeling comfortable and happy to make that connection Right. We often talk about this idea of kind of orchestrating referrals in a friendly way that adds value and doesn't just start with asking for referral, which is a little bit asking, rather than taking the ideas that in the book and the communications that you're sending out with those people there's probably opportunities through the year, end of year tax planning, kids going off to college, all of these kind of like financial milestones that are likely to happen out there, the email communications that you send out saying this event's happening, these things are happening. We come up to this particular milestone, if you hear anyone talking about it. Actually, we've got a great chapter that covers this in the book. Happy to send you a copy to give to them. So the topic bridging type ideas and reminding them that the orchestrated referral opportunity exists Again, the book exists. It's just a friendly giving way of accelerating that conversation. Yeah, hopefully business comes from it.

Heidi: Yeah, I think it makes it an easier way If you're going to give your friend a book and say, hey, this is my advisor, read this and then tell me what you think, and then it just kind of opens that dialogue with them too, so that it's not daunting for people. You know, it's not a 500 page book on finance, so and we tried to make the concepts in there very attainable and not overly complicated things so that people felt that they could understand it.

Stuart: And that's such a fantastic point because I think sometimes people thinking they're thinking in a traditional book sense and that something that is 500 pages on a shelf needs to be some academic tone of how much information that they know, which, as I say all the time, the job of work of the book, the purpose of the book isn't to sell a book, is to start a conversation, and if you can encourage that conversation by people feeling good about it and that they're not, they don't feel stupid or they don't feel overwhelmed, it's just the easy next step towards the thing that needs to happen, which at some point is a conversation.

So I think as well, even if people don't necessarily try to don't let their egos get in the way and they're trying to write it just to share everything that they do, sometimes they undervalue the basics that they've kind of taken for granted years ago. Because we're in the business and typically as business owners, we're dealing with a more complicated end of the spectrum, because the simple end takes care of itself. It's easy to overlook that a lot of people's questions are at the simple end and not at the complicated ends, because that's where they are in their journey.

Heidi: So I mean, think about it from our own perspective and life. If you're going to go to the doctor, I mean, do you know what's in the medical journals? Probably not, yeah, so, as the doctor, if they're coming in the room and all they're doing is vomiting out all of this data and stuff, that you have no clue what they're talking about, and then when they're fitting you, when you leave out there feeling like, well, I'm stupid, so it's not beneficial for the client, the patient you know you as the individual to make it complex. So, you know, just speak on people on the level in which they're at, and if they are on a higher level than those, conversations will come about later.

Stuart: That's the great point. They'll naturally go like understanding where in the journey, where in the front, you're speaking with them and those are other elements and naturally either going to quickly come out, and it can accelerate down that route, or they'll come out over time and it's unnecessary at this stage.

Heidi: Yes, exactly.

Stuart: Such a great conversation same as last time. The time went so fast. I just did the same, where I want to make sure that people can find out more about what you guys are doing, either from just from an interest to see what you're doing or specifically for people looking for more tailored one on one financial device. Where's the best people play? It's definitely time to wrap up, because my tongue stopped working. The best place that people can go to find out more?

Heidi: So our website is agapewealth.com. There's a lot of good information, including the book on the website talks about who we are. We have a video mon talk of me talking about you know who we are as an organization on there, as well as some bios of the people that work here. You know. It also has some strategies and things like that on the website where you can see some of the things that we do here in the office and it'll also give you our information where you can come in or set an appointment or set up a call with us to meet with me and kind of discuss those things.

Stuart: Fantastic. Well, as always, we'll make sure we put the links in the show notes, so, whether people are listening to the or watching the video on the website or on the podcast player, the links will just be below so people can get straight through. Heidi, thank you so much. We've recorded this just in the week before Christmas, so really appreciate taking the time and driving some of your attention before it switches back to the family completely. Yes, then the and then we'll go live. I think we're a couple of weeks out, so this will be one of the first episodes in 2024, so I think it'll be great to check back in sometime later in the year and see how things are going, and perfect.

Heidi: Merry Christmas and happy new year to you.

Stuart: Yeah, thank you. You too. Everyone, thanks for listening and watching along again. I hope you had a fantastic Christmas. We're excited to help more of you write more books in 2024 and get some of the engagement that Heidi's been getting. Thanks everyone. We will speak soon and have a great holiday.