Today on the Book More Show, we’re talking about the father-son mortgage team of Scott and Zach Asbell.

With decades of combined experience, they share some great stories about building their family business, navigating fluctuating housing markets, and the importance of trust in client relationships.

This is where their books shine, as they give the opportunity to start the conversation by helping people first.

Their latest book, ‘Own a Home Cheaper Than Rent’, born from Zach’s personal experience, does just that by providing real insights into the possibility of owning a home for a generation who believe it’s out of reach.

Scott and Zach share some great insights into tailoring content to attract and maintain long-term interest, and we also touch on the transformational impact of having written a book as Zach reflects on the recognition of his work.

SHOW HIGHLIGHTS

1. Scott and Zach Asbell discuss the dynamics of their father-son partnership in the mortgage business, operating across 42 states from Utah, with a focus on client trust and adapting to market changes.

2. Zach's transition back into the family business and his hands-on experience in buying and managing properties as part of an affordability solution for homeownership is highlighted.

3. The episode covers Utah's political landscape and its encouragement of accessory dwelling units to address housing shortages, demonstrating how state policy can impact real estate strategies.</li>

4. We explore the concept of house hacking, noting that approximately 25 to 30 percent of their Utah clients use this strategy to afford homeownership in their desired neighborhoods earlier than anticipated.

5. The Asbells share how they utilize a book as a top-of-funnel tool to educate clients about real estate strategies, serving as a conversation starter rather than a comprehensive guide.

6. Content creation strategies are discussed, emphasizing the importance of concise and engaging content to maintain client engagement over time without overwhelming them with information.

7. The conversation touches on the impact of educational books on clients' credit scores, the shift in credit score requirements for the best loan rates, and the use of these resources for marketing and education.

8. Zach recounts the credibility and opportunities gained from authoring a book on credit, and we discuss the approachable process of book writing for those looking to establish authority in their field.

9. We discuss the benefit of having a variety of educational materials, including books and digital content, to expand reach and offer value to both consumers and businesses in the real estate market.

10. The episode concludes with well-wishes for the new year, expressing excitement for the future and the anticipation of following up with the Asbell team's progress in real estate and client engagement.

    LINKS 
    Scott Asbell - LinkedIn
    Asbell Team Home Loans

Book Blueprint Scorecard

Don't forget, you can see how your book idea stacks up against the Book Blueprint by going to BookBlueprintScore.com and, if you want to be a guest on the show to plan your successful book, just head over to 90MinuteBooks.com/guest

Ready to get started: 90MinuteBooks.com/get-started

Be a Guest: 90MinuteBooks.com/guest
Your Book Blueprint Score: BookBlueprintScore.com
Titles Workshop: 90MinuteBooks.com/Workshops
Interview Shows: 90-Minute Books Author Interviews
Questions/Feedback: Send us an email
Extra Credit Listening: MoreCheeseLessWhiskers.com 

TRANSCRIPT
(AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors)

Stuart: Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of the Book more show. It's Stuart Bell here and today joined by Zac and Scott Asbell. Guys, how are you doing? This is going to be an exciting show because we know each other a little bit. We've kind of got to know each other through the book process and even before, because you guys know Dean. So I think our paths have crossed in that way and you're in that kind of by-and-by-through-all only type world. So the kind of circles are crossing over. But for everyone else out there, give a bit of a background on the world we usually just have. We often just have one guest, so give a bit of a background on the relationship, but then also what you guys do out there in Utah.

Scott:  Well, we are a father-son team. We've been in the mortgage business it's almost like a family business for over 30 years now and it's just been fantastic. Zac and I run a branch here in Utah and our company services clients in 42 different states and we're just all about helping people and doing the right thing. We know that if we do the right thing over time, the business will come.

Stuart: Zac, were you in the business straight out of school or did you kind of go another path and then come back to working together?

Zach:   Yeah, right after I graduated with a business management degree. I ended up going a different path for about six to eight months and then Scott and I got to talk and we're like, hey, actually this might be a good fit, and so the more we dove into it. I started doing certain marketing elements for Scott and then, as we go further in, it's like, well, I better get licensed because it's just the path that at least you kind of a thing.

Stuart: It's such a nice. We've had a couple of family run businesses on the show before and then clients who we've worked with have been in a similar situation either husband and wife or parent and child and I always have a little bit of envy or jealousy because I'm obviously in the US now family's back in the UK, although my brother's over here and we get to work together, which is fantastic. But the occasions where I've had a chance to work closer with parents not in a business sense but on projects or family projects or something around the houses that opportunity just to spend that much, I don't even know if I'd describe it as quality time, but almost the incidental time. We're not just having that relationship in the peak moments, but just day to day through life. So always it's a great pleasure and privilege to talk to people like you who are in that situation, who get to share that time. And I think that comes through in the book as well as the stories brought together and seeing you guys go through the process, knowing how closely you're aligned. It's really interesting to see that come together and then present itself in the pages.

So, with that being said, I'm going to jump in ahead a little bit. Let's quickly cover who your clients are. So, as people are listening to this, we've obviously got many different business owners who are thinking about writing a book for their business or who have done and are thinking about ways of using it. Describe quickly you mentioned that you're in Utah but work across 42 states. How is that in term of remotely kind of connecting with those people, both at the top of the front of the first base and then as you work with them?

Scott:  Yeah, that's a good question. So majority of our referrals as you mentioned already, stuart are referrals that come from clients, because we have a 3,000 client database that we've accumulated over 30 years and then a few real estate agents that we like that do business the way we do, that send us business. So it's very little advertising and that's great because those people come to us with a high level of trust. Already, the clients that we're specifically looking for would be people who want to purchase a one-to-four family property, either as an investment property or to live in on their own. And what's really happened and the reason this book came to light purchasing a home has gotten trickier over the last few years. Prices have gone up, rates have gone up. How can you still justify purchasing a home and make it work with the family's budget?

And we were sitting there thinking, gee, you know what everyone needs to do, what Zach's doing.

This is like Zach's story, like.

This is a real life story of how he bought his first house, what he did, how he turned it into a rental, how he went and bought his next house, how that worked, what the numbers look like, what was his real payment for two homes rented the old house rented the basement on the new one.

Then, when he went to buy the third house, it really became his story and has become such a popular strategy I'm going to say nationwide to the point where even a lot of, let's say, the state of Utah just in recent times has come out and said hey, we're going to open the gate a little wider and we're going to encourage and allow people to have ADUs accessory dwelling units, in their basement, because we have a serious housing issue and we have to find a way to create more housing for more families. So, as this is happening from a political side, we're also having the tried and tested strategy of how to make this work so you can buy a home with an ADU and literally have a house payment that's cheaper than you would if you were to rent. So that's kind of the big picture of what that looks like.

Stuart: It's such an interesting challenge, I think, the jewel kind of the conflicting or most jewel elements of costs, increasing affordability, getting more difficult wages, not necessarily keeping up well, not at all keeping up with that inflation, and then add interest rate changes on top of it. So looking for what some people might be very creative ways of achieving it. But, zach, I guess this was your experience as well. Once you've been through it, once it's not as difficult as it might seem that there's a certain amount of unknown unknowns. But once those become known unknowns or unknown, known to whichever way around it is, then it becomes a little bit more straightforward. So your experience, was it intentionally moving down that path from the first property to the third property and beyond relatively quickly, or was it kind of like organic development? And now, as you look back, it's a very kind of um with the plan that someone else can follow it?

Zach:   was very intentional. Like when I look back at the first property, we knew going into that property, man, we're probably going to be here 12 to 12. 24 months Granted, with COVID happening that bumped it up to 12 months and we said, hey, you know, let's move to the next house. But I mean, as we look at it too, like the fun part about it is just seeing the compounding effect of getting that first home and moving to the second one we still have the same principal pay down and everything like that. But then to see the rents evolve over the last four or five years and just all those little things that add up to where now, looking back five years, saying, wow, that was a good time to buy that specific property. And you know, had we had the opportunity to go back, we might have even strategized a little bit differently.

The thing I like about this book is if I had this book back when I was buying my first property, it would have probably saved me a year or two on certain elements of it. As far as just the learning curve, like you're talking about, stuart, like when you go to rent that first time, you kind of know the gist of it, what you're looking for, but it's not really outlined. And that's the beauty of this book is it just takes all of the detail and combines it into 105 pages and says, hey, here's your you know quick guide of just how would we do it if we were to do it again. Right, and so that's the beauty of it.

Stuart: I think that's the element as well. I've got the cover here that just get it up on screen for people watching along. I love the. I love all our covers and the work that they're doing to obviously invested interest in loving them. But the thing I really like about this is it's so straightforward and clear and gives people an idea of what the content is, even just from seeing it as it passes by and, I guess, from a referral strategy or backing up the referral strategy those people who you work with, who know trust, you're ready, who know the type of work that you can do.

This is a very easy way of bridging that conversation into a non, non aggressive or non threatening. But it's an easy way for people to say oh, this is the book that Zach and Scott is talking about. I actually know someone who this is a perfect fit for the exact same situation that I was in. We were talking just before we started recording and mentioned that our oldest is 25 and is in a situation where buying isn't really a conversation that they're thinking about very much because they just see it as unachievable. But something like this is very easy for me to take this and pass it to them and it introduces the concepts and maybe starts the conversation in a slightly different way and then leads to obviously, the next step is speaking with you guys. So that referral strategy, writing it as something that other people, an easy way for other people to give and share what you do Was that the thought process from the start or was it more? Let's write it because this is a fantastic idea and worthwhile and then see how we can use it afterwards.

Zach:  I'd say that, scott and I, when we go into consultation, there are certain elements of this book that will include, but it'd be hard for us to have a consultation unless it was going to be a two to three hour consultation that encapsulates all of the information. And so that's one of the beautiful things about the book is we're catching the prospect up to speed so that by the time we get into that consultation, it's a much different conversation versus hey, let's catch you up on this two to three hour lesson about why does house hacking make sense right now? What are the benefits of it from a tax perspective, all the way to getting into that next home a lot sooner, that specific neighborhood that you want to. And so that's the biggest thing that I love about the book is now, when we're going to be going into those consultations. The buyer's already caught up to speed and we're now having a very more tactical conversation to say, okay, we're at X, how do we get to Y?

Stuart: Right, such a great point, scott. Your experience having been in the business for longer, that's getting people up to speed. How much of a challenge was that in the early days? Did you find a lot of the conversations before things like this were available?

Scott: Were doing that again everyone on the same page to then have a conversation from yes, definitely, because we are so focused on education that I wonder if sometimes in the past we actually overdone it, as a client sitting in the office and we're an hour and a half into education and they start to doze off. We've overdone it. But I realize that's an exaggeration, but really, yeah, there's so many pieces of the foundation that we want our clients to understand and have in place so they can make really smart financial decisions, of which purchasing a home is one of those major decisions that we do. We spend a lot of time educating.

So Zach is right on the money, that more education we can do before they come to sit with us, and the more people were able to help, the better prepared they are to come in with the right questions that they've sat on and thought about for a few days or weeks prior to our meeting. But you know, if somebody wants to come in and start from scratch, we'll do it and we probably break it into a couple of different consultations, because just this piece right here that's talking about Teaching someone about what are the pros and cons of a house hack Does it even work for you and your family? That could easily be a 45 minute conversation and we haven't even been able to run numbers yet or say well, how much house could you qualify for or what would this look like if you were to do it? So yeah, the more we can bring people up to speed so that they show up at the conversation with really good questions, thinking how's that going to apply to me and does it really work? That's where we want them to be.

Stuart: It's such an interesting point and I have the same challenge. I think all of us business owners have the same problem. I mean, the majority of us are doing what we do because we love what we do. We've got a passion for the industry, for the business. So wanting just to be able to take out that chip from your brain and put it in someone else's head so that they've got the same vision or the same understanding of what their outcome could really be is very difficult not to just want to enthusiastically share all of that with them.

I was recording with Bob Mangold just yesterday as we record this, it'll be the show that goes live, the one in the sequence before this one and we were talking about the principle of a conversation starting book rather than a traditional book, and one of the elements is the outcome is you want to be in conversation with someone, either on Zoom or in person, bridging that gap between where they're coming from and hearing the words that are coming out of your mouth.

Once they get that one-on-one conversation, the fact that the conversation starting book is written in such a way that does communicate your methodology, your words, your approach, the language that you use, the way that you describe something. It just moves the real-life conversation, the one-on-one conversation, on so much faster because they've already got an appreciation of the things that you're saying and the way that you say them. Otherwise they wouldn't reach out for that call. It's almost like a sifting and sorting mechanism into if this resonates and then they make that connection with you. The connection that you have is stronger than if they just walked through the door and hadn't had any of that context in the first place.

Scott:  Right, you know, zach, what percentage of clients would you say are opting to do the house hack? Because it's not the only thing we do, it's just one of the many strategies and, as we sit down, you could do this, you could do that, and it's definitely not right for everyone, but what percentage of clients would you say are opting to do?

Zach: this Right 25 to 30% right now is what we're seeing.

Scott: So that's a sizable portion of the market here in Utah, as people are trying to find affordable housing. And, like Zach referred to before, one of the things that we have to understand is well, you could have a single-family residence for a condo-sized payment. Right, let's show you how that works. Or, like Zach mentioned before, you could move into the neighborhood that you eventually want to be in that is your dream neighborhood Maybe 10 years earlier than you could normally get in. By doing the house hack that's going to allow you to get into that neighborhood, get established, rent the basement. As your family grows, your income's also increasing. Now you can take over the basement too and get rid of the renters. So, like we said, it just doesn't work for everybody, but for those that it does, it's the difference between getting a house right now and not getting a house, so it's a really big deal.

Stuart: Right and, as you say, 25, 30 percent of the market is a significant business in its own right and I like the idea of a kind of a campaign approach to everything that you do. This book is the top of a funnel, a campaign funnel that is addressing that market. But for the people who it's not a good fit for whether they self-select that it's not a good fit, having just read the book or as a result of a meeting they're now in your world and you can present them with other, more traditional offers or offers that are a better fit. So again, this breaking away from the traditional book sense to a conversation, starting book sense if you think about it in terms of a campaign that then leads to the broader offering and more tailored offering. It's not that the book is trying to convert people or convince them that this is the right thing for them to do, and then they go away and do it themselves. It's the first step into a conversation where the answer might be a house hack solution or it might be something else, but now they know you, now that they're in your world, you've got a chance to have that conversation and again, from a referral perspective, it's very easy for other people in your world to make that connection between the thing that you're offering in the book and that conversation and someone who they know. So it just really streamlines, rather than the traditional. We love working with clients like you and referrals at the heart of our business. Please go and tell them with your friends. I mean, there's a place for that. But it's definitely nicer to orchestrate it in a way that adds value all the way down there, all the way down the track, this idea of the content of the book.

I'm always interested to hear people's view on how they decide what to include and what not to include. So obviously the process that we've got walks people through the outlining step. That's a major part of the program. But this idea of a traditional book often includes a lot of stuff because the book is the product and people are trying to hit a certain page count. So it's kind of like a quantitative measure rather than a qualitative measure. And then marry that with the thought of OK, this is a conversation starting book, but then the conversation carries on elsewhere. So what was the balance between the right level of content to include, because you guys have been in business for years and you could write three books worth of content on it. So how did that go in terms of choosing what was included and what is best fit later on?

Zach: We wanted the book to take about an hour to read is what we were kind of shooting for us. Scott and I thought about it. We said, well, we could probably make, like you said, a three, four hundred page book. But when you get a book that big from somebody, you're typically going to say, well, this is good, go put it on the bookshelf.

Stuart: It's a job for Futurezac Cohen's act. Doesn't have time. Futurezac will read it.

Zach: Yeah, Futurezac will read it. So as we looked at that, we said we've got to pair it down to where it has enough of the content to drive the conversation further and everything like that. But we just did it. I don't know. We probably pulled several elements out of it that just kept the book more condensed and more punchy.

Stuart: Yeah, I think as well the opportunity there and we talked to people a lot about this because oftentimes people will come with other material that they've got already either stuff in the website or presentations or PowerPoint type things that they've created and they'll often want to more is better and kind of throw everything in there. But the reality of the situation is having this first element that's easy to consume, gets people feeling good about completing it in a way that has moved their thinking on or given them some tangible steps to feel like they're progressing. But then, once you've captured people's details, once you've started that conversation, to be able to follow up with people over the long run and use some of those additional pieces to reinforce the book itself so much more powerful than just trying to throw all into this one asset, kind of between the front and back cover of a book. Because the reality is that most people, even if they fully intend to work with you and want to reach out, the likelihood of the timing being perfectly aligned so that they have the time to reach out, that they can schedule something that the stars align and that happens is slim, but it's much more likely over the long run. So if you can use some of those assets, some of those elements and those amplifying points of the conversation further down the track.

I think that's much more value than just trying to put it in the pages for the sake of some arbitrary page count. Another thing that I like as well is that idea of making it consumable within an hour, because I've got a shelf full of books that I would absolutely love to have read and consumed and understood. But the reality is readership rates are relatively low because people have other things coming up. So that bite size deliverable for people, I think it really kind of respects the time that they've got and also makes it more likely that they'll feel successful in achieving something because it is manageable. The feedback that you guys get I know we're early in the project, but the feedback that you guys get on this bite size approach, because there's so many, it's a broad set of information that people need to know in the round completely, but this bite size sharing of information, do you get feedback from people where that's easier for them to consume and move one step forward.

Scott: Yes, yes, just like Zach said, people do not want a 300 page book. I don't want a 300 page book, and in fact, you remember, we've published a couple of other books with your company too, and for anyone who's thinking about that experience, I will say it's fantastic. Your support staff are there, just right there. The editing process is amazing. The book cover process is amazing. It's a great experience.

So, for anyone who's wondering, we have had a great experience here with Stuart and his team. You know, remember, we started with this book here the 12 Secrets to Improve your Credit Score in 37 Days or Less and then we actually took that book which wasn't a huge book it was only what? 72 pages, zach and then we condensed that into an even smaller book with smaller bite size pieces that people could consume, and that's the one we end up handing out the most. It's interesting because both books have same content, but one is really focused just for people who say what's the bottom line? Just tell me what to do to get my credit score better. Versus the larger book that's more geared for an engineer or an accountant, someone who wants to understand the details and the mechanics behind it.

And so we provided both of those. It's kind of funny you mentioned this because in this book, right here, the All-Know Home Cheaper Than Rent. Chapter 9 talks about how to avoid paying tax on your real estate and we really struggled with do we give more, do we give less? So, oddly enough, because there's so much content there that somebody could want we actually took the first few pages and we said here is the simplified overview and if all you want to know is the basics, read these three pages and then skip the rest of this chapter. We actually say that in the book, but if you want to really understand the nuts and bolts behind depreciation and recapture and the tax benefits of owning real estate, then go ahead and read all 20 pages of this chapter and we know some people will just skip the chapter.

They'll read the summary, skip the rest of it, and that's totally fine.

Stuart: So we've tried to accommodate that and that psychology of thinking about the I need a more pithy way of describing this but thinking about the psychology of the job of work, of the book and the whole kind of book label and author label and bestsellers and all of this traditional book thinking, which has the benefit of sharing the authority, and there's a. There's a stronger light that comes from creating a book than creating the same number of words as blog posts on a web page. You can have 10,000 words on the website, 10,000 words printed between some mashed up trees, and this one has more credibility and light and reciprocity and it feels like you're giving something than the online equivalent. Even when we talk about the online version of the books, the digital version of the books, we intentionally lay them out in exactly the same way, so they've got left and right layouts and there's blank pages where there would be blank pages in the physical version for the purpose of keeping that psychology going. But when you think about the actual job of work, we're not making money from book sales.

Our business is to help clients get new mortgages to finance their dream of home ownership, and the thing to move those people forward, quite for many people, is going to be those bite-sized chunks, because it makes them feel like they're going in the right direction. It gives them something that they don't feel overwhelmed by in terms of how to understand all of this piece. It makes them feel successful and that the outcome is achievable. And then, with those good feelings, with Zach and Scott being the people who provided that, and here's a very easy next step. That path is just so streamlined. I really love the. I'd forgotten the earlier books, actually the fact that the second one was the condensed version. We should run a separate podcast with you guys. And there's another author we've worked with called Bill Bloom, whose second book was down at 32 pages, I think. So we've got a couple of people who have really kind of dialed into this idea of less is more and the campaign type approach, and sometimes this is the best tool, but sometimes this is the best tool.

So I think for people listening, there's often a overwhelming feeling of this is a big project and there's a lot to do and it's. I need to lock myself away in a cabin in the woods with a candle and a quill and get it all written down. But taking 80% of the of the psychology of that into something that's 20%. The size is but 100% more effective it's. Again.

I'm doing the same problem that you described before with this. So much if I could just take the chip out of here and put it in people's heads and have them instantly appreciate the full opportunity. It's different not to just talk for two hours about it. Okay, sorry, off on a tangent there the feedback on some of the earlier books, or not necessarily the feedback, but the use cases. So when you think about having several titles now, several assets that you can share out in different ways, have there been any campaigns or any ways that you've used it which have either been a surprise or unexpected, or you've got feedback in a way that you didn't necessarily think would happen at the beginning?

Scott: Well, the first one that comes to mind yesterday we ran into a real estate agent that we just happened to see a few months ago. We gave him two copies of each book and said hey, read this and you might want to share it with some clients. And it was so funny to talk to him yesterday. He must have thanked us up and down for 10 minutes. I love the books, they're so useful. My clients check them out and then they have to return them and you know what? We can get you a few more books. You don't have clients check them out and turn them back in, you can just send it to them and then they could pass it on to somebody else. But he was so appreciative of the progress that his clients are making with their scores as they're getting ready to purchase home and there's probably not a week that goes by the Zacher I don't get a call from somebody that says thank you so much for that book. It's helping me. My scores are much higher than they were and this much closer now to my dream of owning a home. So it's very effective.

And we got these out, like we're constantly. Every time we meet with somebody, we do the pre-qualification, we go through their scenario, we see what their scores are, and you got to realize now it takes a 780 credit score on a conventional loan to get the best interest rate Used to be 740. Now it's 780. And so we're just going to people that we're talking to running numbers. Okay, you know what. You're a 760. We can save you a little more money. Here's the tool Do exactly what we say, we'll get you up to a 780. And we're going to save you some money with this as we get you ready to buy your house. So we do hand these out Like candy, why not?

Stuart: Exactly, why not?

I mean, everyone thinks that everyone else's industry is easy and if only I worked in that business it would be so much more straightforward.

But this idea of a almost like a magic trick, something that you can start the conversation in a very simple way for people to get started down the track the credit options and understand the credit score and making these small changes and how it can make a meaningful difference over the life of a 30 year mortgage, I think for every business there's a small piece that you can give someone to start their journey which you might think is kind of it's easy to overlook in your own business because it's the one on one level, it's the basic level and usually, as business owners, we're operating on the more complicated or random or extreme versions.

It's easy to overlook those initial steps. But the value that you're sharing with both the end consumer, the people who are doing taking those steps to make a difference, plus for those complementary, non-competing businesses like the real estateers, who really can use it in their world to make their clients' worlds, their clients' outcomes better, I mean that is the magic of creating something like this because, as we just said, there's all of the benefit and authority and gift giving and value proposition, because something's glued together on paper and then it easily makes a meaningful difference.

Scott: And to your point, stuart. We have a handful of real estate agents who are just waiting for this book to hit the streets and they're going to be buying hundreds of copies to push out to their client database because they want their clients to understand the strategy and they know that it's going to help a handful of their own clients and their own database.

Stuart: You could imagine a scenario, and I mean you need to balance their effort with the reward. But just listening to you talk there I mean on the book's release. So I did an AMA yesterday with some of our clients and we were talking about this idea of a release which, in a kind of self-publishing conversation, starting book world. It isn't really, it's not the same as a traditional book release, but still there's a date in the calendar which this thing becomes real. So reaching out to those realtors and working with them and doing a Zoom recording with them, giving them a behind-the-scenes a little more in-depth, and then giving them a pre-written letter that they can tailor for themselves a little bit, to hand out with the book to the clients and say I've worked with Scott and Zac for years and I managed to get a little bit of time with them and we recorded a behind-the-scenes. So not only is it in the book, but there's this kind of secret conversation. I keep doing air quotes, the secret conversation that we had as well. And here's the next step. I mean that in terms of increasing the success of the funnel and smoothing the path and building up the realtors, because you know that some business is going to pass through from them. There's so many opportunities to kind of amplify that complimentary, non-competing world just from talking more about the things that you're talking about already. It's kind of packaging it in a way that seems to just add more and more perceived value, which is kind of exponentially greater than the actual value that it's providing, which, in its own right, is fantastic.

I just glanced at the clock. I know that we've got a hard out soon. I'm super grateful for both of your time. I want to wrap up quickly, then, talking about what the next steps are and how you're planning to kind of leverage the suite of books almost. Is there a way of? Is the planning of the next couple of months, to use these just as conversations come up, or, now that there's a library of assets, do they exist on the website in ways that people can download them and kind of self-select into a path, trying to share ideas with other people who might be listening and thinking about, okay, if I create a book, how I can then use it, and you guys are obviously an expert at that. So, yeah, is it more physical and giving it to people, or is it more online and allowing people to download and join the, join your world that way.

Scott: Yeah, it's been a combination of both this new book we're still in the process of building that funnel, but if you were to, if you were to go to 12creditesecretscom or stoppayingextracom, then you would end up in a funnel for one of those books where you get a copy of the, a PDF copy of the book, and then you would actually get on a series that lasts about 26 days where Zach and I shot little three to five minute videos talking about every single strategy and secret and why it works and how it fits with your credit program, and so that's in place.

And then, of course, we'll be doing a similar process with this new book so people can get PDF copies of the book. We'll probably attach those to our website too, but then just handing them out, like we're doing for people that we know need a higher level understanding of the concept, and then getting it into the hands of other people who know, people like the real estate agents we work with, to get it in the hands of a lot of clients that way. You know, it's also something we've toyed with doing on maybe some Facebook advertising or something, because there's so many people. How do we get a greater reach to people we don't even know that, need to know this, and so we're trying to figure out what's the best strategy for that long term, and I'm sure we'll play with some different things. But yeah, we were handing out the books and also doing PDFs both.

Stuart: It's such a great opportunity because the things that are currently working, the fact that the book exists in physical and digital form, it's an asset now that you can use in multiple different channels as the opportunity presents itself. So things that you're not doing as the conversations come up, it's there and waiting and ready to go. It's not that you could see the opportunity and then have to create the asset. This is something that's evergreen and is useful in so many different circumstances. Zach, if you one of the questions that came up in a podcast I did a couple of weeks ago, have you ever had someone yet stop you and say, oh, you're the person who wrote the book, probably not walking down the street or an airport, but as clients come in? Has there ever has there yet been a kind of double take moment when they make the connection between the person on the cover and the person that they're talking to?

Zach:  Yeah, definitely with the credit book. We've had that happen and it just it gives us a lot of trust in that conversation going forward when we do say, oh, yeah, let's go in depth on your specific scenario for that and so it's been really good. I'm excited to see that just continue into this specific book. You know, hopefully we do have that in a year where, hey, guess what, stuart, somebody stopped us on the street and said, hey, thanks for writing that book.

Stuart: He stopped having a shelf around for autographs Exactly.

Scott: You know, Stuart, I want to. I just want to speak for just a second to the aspiring authors out there who are thinking man, I want to do this. I just don't know how hard it's going to be. You know, it wasn't like super easy. We didn't do it overnight, right, it took some time and it just started with Zach writing out. You sat down for how many hours, would you say, Zach, it took you to write out that initial draft of here's my thoughts, here's my experience. These are some things I think people need to know and understand.

Zach: Probably four or five hours.

Scott: Okay. So you know it took him some time. Now I realize you have even a different model with the 90 minute approach and how you do that, but in this case we wanted to do it this way, so he took a few hours, and then every once in a while we'd get together and say, hey, you know what, let's work on this chapter a little bit, let's refine this. What charts or graphs might be useful or helpful? What's something that someone needs to know that we haven't even thought about yet and we just kind of let it simmer for a while. As we said, what to take out, what to add in, what needs enhancement. But really it is very doable. It's something that anybody could do.

Everybody's an expert at something, and we really are experts at this. I don't know that there's anybody in our marketplace that knows this better than we do. I bet money on it. We really are the experts in Utah on house hacking, and the same goes for you know credit scoring and how to improve your credit scores. We've been teaching these classes for 25 to 30 years and most loan officers don't have a clue about this stuff. But we really are experts. So it's comfortable for us to talk about these things because we understand them so well and at a depth that most people don't. But there's something that other people out there who are listening to this we're not the expert on other things right, and they are, and so it's just not that hard. You're an expert of something and you can do this. Just start by writing it out, put it on paper, get started somewhere, give a little time to it and next thing you know, you've got yourself a really powerful tool that helps set you apart from your competition.

Stuart: Yeah, such fantastic advice, that kind of bite-size approach to chunking it down and not thinking about the whole thing at once, but instead piece by piece and strategically thinking about the outline and then just filling in the details on the back of that. As you say, that's the process that we've got in a slightly different format. For clients who come through the normal route. That outline is the key and it makes it so much easier whether people work with us or do it by themselves. That really is the key that makes it, I think, from an aspiration project to something that's achievable. So I really hope that people take heed of what you said there and just kind of get started. You drop some mentioned some website links before, but I want to make sure that people can find out more about you and the team and what you're doing across there. What's the best place for people to go to check out the Asbell team and what you guys can offer?

Scott: Yeah, good question. So we have a website that's asbellteamcom and then our email is going to be team at asbellcom and then the phone number that's kind of our office number is 801-368-2900 and you can get ahold of any of us at that phone number. And if someone wanted to tap into, like you were saying, the previous books, just go to stoppayingextracom or 12creditssecretscom and you could choose one of those books and get a PDF copy of that and geta feel for what do those videos look like? What might you be able to create on your site or for your book? Get a feel for what that process looks like of educating people on the book once they opt into getting the book, say what we should.

Stuart: Have had a couple of conversations recently and try to encourage more and more people to do what you've done in terms of taking that seed information and then just amplifying it a little bit by providing more value down the track. So maybe as we get into 2024 next year, we can do a deeper dive on that process, because I think that is a game changer for people if they actually embraced it and started creating that content as well, which is straightforward once you've got the written word, you've got the material, it's just repositioning it. So, yeah, it'd be great to follow up on the show next year and do a little bit of a deeper dive there. But thanks so much for your time.

Guys, it always goes fast and today's no exception. We'll make sure that the links to the sites and the team site you mentioned there is in the show notes, so anyone listening on a podcast player or on the website can get a direct link through. Again, just thanks for your time. I want to wish you a happy new year and everyone listening happy new year. 2024 is going to be exciting and can't wait to check back in and see what you guys are up to. All right, thanks, stuart, thanks.

Scott: Thank you guys.