Today on the Book More Show, we're talking with Heidi Ardis, Founder and CEO of Agape Wealth, a faith-based financial firm, about financial planning strategies and retirement goals and how she's developed a long-term approach to finding clients.

Heidi shares insights from her new book Simplified Strategies for Retirees, which outlines practical yet straightforward approaches that start a conversation about retirement planning.

We explore the concept of a purposeful retirement focused on human connection and identity beyond finances and how helping people doing missionary work start their financial journey has led to a broad network of happy clients.

This is a great conversation about developing relationships and how a series of easy-to-digest books can lead to many opportunities to add value to potential clients.

SHOW HIGHLIGHTS

• Welcome Heidi Ardis, founder of Agape Wealth, a faith-based financial firm specializing in income distribution and retirement planning.

• Her book, Simplified Strategies for Retirees, aims to simplify the complexity of financial planning and offer effective strategies for a fulfilling retirement.

• Agape Wealth found a niche serving churches and global missionaries, by offering sound financial advice at a lower cost.

• Heidi stresses the importance of being discerning when choosing a financial advisor, and the significance of starting to save for retirement early, regardless of income level.

• A common pitfall in financial planning is the tendency to overestimate short-term and underestimate long-term opportunities.

• Agape Wealth assists clients with estate planning and financial education, guiding them through their financial journey.

• Heidi highlights the importance of financial discussions within couples and preparing for unexpected events.

• She plans to write a series of financial books to simplify complex financial concepts. She gave a glimpse into her upcoming book and the insights it will offer.

• Heidi believes that retirement should be more than just financial security. It should also be about the chance to make real connections and live the retirement you want.

• Agape Wealth's approach is personal and holistic, building a relationship with clients over time and focusing on their individual lifestyle and retirement goals.

MORE ABOUT HEIDI

Heidi Ardis - LinkedIn
Agape Wealth

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TRANSCRIPT
(AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors)

Stuart: Hey everyone, welcome back to another Book More show. It's Stuart Bell here and today excited to be joined by another one of our viewers of the show. Great to have you here.

 Heidi: Yeah, thanks, I'm happy to be here.

 Stuart: Excited, fantastic. So it's always funny when I speak to people because I always see the books going through the system, but I don't always get chance to speak to people beforehand. So I kind of know people from the perspective of what they've written about, not necessarily their bigger background, and obviously the audience is meeting you for the first time. So why don't we start with a little bit of background about you and the organization? You're down in Mississippi, right?

 Heidi: I am yes, we're in Biloxi's that we're here on the Gulf Coast. We're actually about to have Cruise in the Coast happen here, which is the world's largest antique car show that we host every year here in Biloxi. But I am Heidi Artis. I am the founder and CEO of Agape Wealth, which is really a faith-based financial firm. It was developed over a long period of time with my faith and my family.

 I've been a financial advisor since 2006 and really over the last four years have focused specifically on income distribution and retirement planning for people who are headed into retirement or just wanting to make sure that they're on the right track to get there. So the book Simplified Strategies for Retirees was written for that reason to help people have a little book, because I know a lot of people don't actually like to sit down and read long big books anymore, but really something just simple where people can refer back to it, look at it. And it's written in plain English, because sometimes in the financial world or any professional industry we like to get over complicated with things. So that really was the mindset behind the book is to help people focus on what are some good strategies, what am I looking for and how do I get there, and so that was really the reason for the company being founded as well.

 Stuart: And that tying in with the methodology and your approach. When people actually meet you in person or on Zoom these days and actually have that real conversation, the tie in between the books that they've read, that started the conversation and what you're then saying to them, it really makes a difference as opposed to the typical corporate jargon based information that's out there. There's no real connection and I think what you guys provide to people is not only the nuts and bolts of the technical solutions, but it's really the rounded, more holistic approach to building a relationship over time and helping them. Was that part and parcel of the idea of bringing it together in a book, this idea of kind of ceding the conversation, knowing that you were eventually going to speak to people in this way?

 Heidi: Yeah, I mean and I'm actually in the process of writing another article right now for Kipling's, your magazine, about having a purposeful retirement, because retirement isn't just about your money you know, we work and work and then we get to retirement, and a lot of people, especially in the current generation of the baby boomers who are retiring their parents came from the generation that grew up during depression, post-depression, and so they had this mindset if you don't work, you don't eat. And so now they get to this point where, okay, well, I'm not going to work anymore. So what am I? Who am I? And so our goal here at Agave Wealth is to sit down with you and say, okay, the money is one thing, and we're going to get to that, obviously, but what do you want? Who do you want to be? What do you want to develop?

 Your retirement years should be the best years of your life, so let's drive that. Let's figure out what our goals are, what our dreams are. Do you want to pick up a new hobby? Do you want to be somebody who volunteers? Do you want to be a part of a church? What do you want to do? That's going to bring that purpose back to your life, because you're not just an employee and that's what we look at. Our whole life is okay. Well, I go to work, I take care of my kids, I do all of this stuff I have to do. Now I get to the point where I don't have to do those things. Now what? So that's really the purpose behind the book, too, is hey, let's get to that point where we can have a purposeful, meaningful, simplified plan that puts you where you want to be.

  Stuart: Because, as you say, so much of the technical nuts and bolts is achievable. It's your individual approach to retirement planning is obviously can be tailored for each person. There's only so many tools in the toolkit that you're pulling from but to really dial into the lifestyle that they want, and not just sub-products that have an outcome, but that outcome is matched to what they want to do. It's funny, isn't it? It's kind of when you're in working age you meet someone for the first time and one of the first questions is what do you do? People's whole presence is so attributed to their career and the works of their business that having all of this free time all of a sudden, it can be quite I imagine it can be quite overwhelming.

 Heidi: Yeah, it's definitely over. Well, with social media and with our jobs, we get disconnected from human interaction, and I think retirement is that time where we can get back to being interconnected, you know, with our community and with each other in a way that's not just based on the day-to-day grind of life, it's based on what you really want from you know from the last 30 years of your life what do you want to do?

 Stuart: Without the constraints. You kind of got an open canvas. You mentioned the faith-based element of the work that you do and the clients that you service. Is that intentionally a large part of the audience or is it a coincidentally a large part of the audience?

 Heidi: Not necessarily. I think that's more a personal thing. You know we don't seek out just faith-based clients. I think it's more for people to know that everything that I do is purposefully driven inside from my face. So, you know, I want my outward being to reflect the inside. So the company's name a guy is the Greek word for love and how we are supposed to sacrificially love our fellow man the way that God loves us, and so it's really more personal in terms of you know, there's no judgment on our side for who you are, who you want to become. It's my job to reflect that. I'm going to love and put good into the world, regardless of you know, what's going on externally.

 Stuart: It's interesting. I asked because I was working with another client just last week, so it's obviously top of my mind we were looking at their businesses is similar, but they probably focus a little bit more on the church side of things. Almost coincidentally, it's obviously very important to them and there's only so many hours in the week and their week is filled with working with those clients, so that's just coincidentally, the direction it was going. So I was thinking in terms of addressability of the market or the language that you use when you're talking to people. So it's something that I always pick up on because it's not part of my background.

 I think it's not reflected in the same way in the UK as it is in the US, so it's been across here. It just stands out a little bit more. But this idea of talking in the language that the audience resonates with the people who you want to work with resonates with and, as you say, with no judgment or bias against the people who use different language. But it's still a very fulfilling I don't know if that's quite the right word, but it's a very fulfilling way to talk about it because there's a commonality and of approach or direction, or there are only so many hours in the week, and if you happen to work with those people that resonate more, all the better.

 Heidi: Well, I think for me, I actually like working with people who feel differently.

 Just because of the fact that there's a lot in terms of religion, I guess that it has a lot of negativity associated with it, and because of that, we created a company to show that's not how it's really supposed to be, because if you are a follower of Christ, christ didn't discriminate, and so we want people to feel welcome, no matter who you are, who your background is.

 We do actually work with some churches. One of our give backs is that we help global missionaries around the world to have financial advice that sound, and we do it at a pretty significant reduction in cost for them, just because they're traveling into remote areas of the world and most of the time they don't have a lot of money and so good financial advisors don't necessarily have the time or want to work with them because it's not really making them much money. So our give back is really working with global missionaries to help them get sound financial advice, but our main focus is really just working with retirees. Now, you do have to be nice. I don't necessarily want to work with people who are rude and obnoxious, but other than that, you know, we don't really preface who can or cannot be a part of the you need to be nice should be a rule on everyone's front door.

 Stuart: That's kind of both the front door to the business coming in and their front door going out.

 Heidi: It's definitely that's the beauty of owning your own company, Right? You get to be selective in who you work with. So and that's the thing too for a retiree or somebody who is to find a financial advisor, you know, if you don't fit with somebody just because they're smart, that is not a really good reason to choose them.

 Stuart: Right, that's that idea that you have a broad choice if you want to work with, and picking the people who either resonate because they've got saying they're going in the same direction or it's just something that you resonate with more.

 It's a life will be very long and maybe wouldn't make it to retirement if everything was a flight and a struggle all the way through.

 Right, the point you made about the missionary work. That's an interesting element as well because there's my wife's a kindergarten teacher so we've we have our second marriage kind of reconnected later in life, but as a kindergarten teacher it's not the most financially rewarding of careers very rewarding in other ways, but not financially. And I imagine the mission needs in the same position is oftentimes you think that in order to plan for retirement you need a certain amount of disposable income to be able to get to that point where I think in the long arc of someone's career, if you start earlier, even if it's a very small amount, that just sets you up for more success in the future. So across the clients who work with maybe not just necessarily the missionary people Do you find that the people are almost reluctant to get involved in a conversation because they think they assume that they've got no options and choices, so kind of bury their heads in the sand where actually if they did something they might have a better outcome.

 Heidi: Yeah, it's really about the due diligence of just starting, and I do think that people who have lower income levels feel defeated before they even get started, and so learning to live within one's meetings, regardless of what those means are, is the key, and paying yourself first. Obviously, you know if it comes to buying the new TV or having to put money away for your future. Maybe the TV can wait, but we've been conditioned to want everything right now and not looking towards saving up for the future. But I don't think that it matters how much money you make. It's more about percentages and what we're doing to get to the end goal, because I mean, if you're making your missionary and you're living on the lower income, or if you're a teacher and you're living on those means well, you can retire based on that and still have the same lifestyle.

 Stuart: Right. Actually, that's a great point, isn't it? I think it's the same. I was talking to the podcast that will come out. The one before this was talking to Mike, who's a podcast producer, and was talking about who he gets to work with, and the assumption from people having podcasts is they compare themselves to NPR shows or Joe Rogan and if there are 100,000 downloads then it's not worth doing, which is obviously a ridiculous end of the spectrum. But with the social media element of people seeing the extremes of success, I think people get overly disheartened and forget that if they're trying to replicate what there are now, then that's not a million dollar retirement, that's 100,000, maybe, or 50,000 or still something that isn't zero.

 Heidi: Right. Well, I mean, that's a societal and cultural problem in the West period to go to cultural extremes and focus on those instead of really what we should be focusing on, which is the middle. You know, the middle area in the middle of the road. You know, kind of like an argument there's two sides to every story and there's a truth somewhere, but it's usually not on anyone's side.

 So I think that the same thing goes for money or any other aspect of life. It's, you know, focus on what you want and where you want to go, and you need to set a goal. And most of the time when we set goals, we actually achieve them much faster than we set. So we say we got a five year goal and at two years you've already hit your five year goal and now we're moving on, and so it's really just setting a goal and headed. You know, if you get in a car and you don't turn on your GPS and you just drive, well, we don't know where we're going to land in the destination. But if you do put it, you have a destination and you're going to get there.

 Stuart: Right. It really is the case that people underestimate the long term and overestimate the short term and get to certain and much quicker than I think people did in the past. The people that you work with are they mainly in the local area or do you have a statewide footprint or a national footprint?

 Heidi: Yeah, so I work. I mean, the bulk of my clients are probably in Mississippi. However, I do have clients in several states now, just because with me working with internet and internationally with missionaries and things like that. We have clients in Ohio and Florida and Texas and you know probably seven or eight different states, but that's always growing because you know once one person especially if you're in the church world you know they travel around the lot. So people refer to other places. But and we have a lot of military where we're at, where I live in Biloxi, there's three different military bases here. So you know clients sign up here but then they move to other locations. So we do a lot of zoom meetings.

 Stuart: Right. Well, and that's something that again has changed in the last couple of years. That just broadens the footprint so much it just removes the barrier to. In the past someone would have moved and then automatically thought they would need to change the people that they work with, just because it's in practical. But now it's much, much more straightforward the idea that people move and once you're there, go to person, you can now stay there, go to person or wherever they are physically across the board. I'm always interested in people's experience of referrals within the business and how kind of orchestrated they are, or whether they coincidentally come up. The people who you work with. Do you get the feeling that they regularly remember to refer you, or is it kind of after the fact and thinking? I was talking to Bob last week and I should have mentioned it and I forgot.

 Heidi: So I think both are true. However, I would say my clients because I do a very personalized approach with them are more likely to refer. I mean, they call me and text me and they're telling me hey, I was just sitting down with a friend of mine and told them how excited I am about the plan that you put together. So you know, I'm going to send them your way, and that happens a lot without me even asking. But I think if you're in the corporate world, working in that big box firm, and you're looking for referrals, it's not necessarily as organic just because I mean I've worked in that world, and it's harder because you have to ask for a referral based on a plan that's put together in a box. It's this cookie cutter. Well, you're 35 and you have this much money and you are aggressive, so you fit in X and thank God I don't have to do that any longer.

 Stuart: But spreadsheets and having a conversation with people for real.

 Heidi: Yeah, I mean my clients know my children, they know my husband, they get to meet my family. I want to meet their families because retirement isn't, or even any kind of financial planning. I mean, one of my biggest clients is 35. She has three daughters. So I say to them you know, let's get to know each other on a personal level, because if all I know about you is what you tell me about how you live, but then it's not necessarily the same as interacting with you on a personal level. And so we want to be able to do that for people and that's more building a family type office instead of just let's run people through here like Walmart to generate as much revenue as possible, because if that's your goal, I mean that's fine, but that's just not necessarily what I'm looking for. My clients.

 Stuart: Yeah, a different service and your ability to interact and understand them. You know them as much as they know you. It really makes a difference to have a call with someone who you know and have something in a relationship with, rather than just an account number who's dialing into a call centre.

 Heidi: And inevitably you know in the industry that we work in, somebody is going to pass away and we want to be able to make sure that their family knows that we knew them and that we are enacting their wishes and not just a beneficiary on a page. And here you go, here's the money. We want to sit down and have a true, one on one, real conversation with families in those hard times and say this is what your parents or this is what you know, your grandma or whomever said they wanted for you, and that just means more to the person whenever those times come about to and it's a connection that not many other people have.

 Stuart: I mean, the type of conversations that you'll have with people about their legacy and what they want are very open and candid and are there to be had. It's not like it was a sad conversation that popped up when they were talking to a family member. You're talking specifically about the outcome, so I guess that must offer some clarity to the family members who are left behind. There's no ambiguity. You don't have an ulterior motive.

 Heidi: You just there to share the wishes at that time, which, again, is very that's one of the themes in the book to I think one of the chapters in the book does discuss use Number one saying no to an advisor or saying no to the person you're working with. You need to get the courage to say no, that's not what I want. Or, you know, I want to work with somebody else. But there's a lot of different approaches in the financial world where you're either in a corporate or maybe you're working with, like an Edward Jones type office and there's one advisor and there's one assistant, but they have, you know, 500 clients, so you don't necessarily get personalized service because they have to maintain all of those accounts. Or you know there's a team of people and you go in to meet in the office and you don't know who you're meeting with. You're just going in and meeting with someone that is available, right.

 So I created this company to be something different, something different than that. We don't want people to feel like, if you come in for a meeting, we want you to sit down on the couch, have a cup of coffee, let's talk, let's just interact for a little while before we actually go in and get into the conversations of. You know what's happening in your monetary life and, yeah, having those deep personal conversations most of the time we're able to find out more about you than you know. Sometimes you even know about yourself from the questions that we're asking.

 Stuart: Right. That's actually a great point the whole chapter around saying no and being clear on what you want, rather than getting swept up just in the conversation. The idea of you being able to ask the questions that from what is it that you want to do in retirement, what is it that you want for your legacy, who is it that you want to be the beneficiary, and what is it that you think is what difference do you want to make in those lives? Those are questions that particularly I don't know whether it's in more of an issue with a slightly older generation, but there's definitely people who avoid those conversations because they don't want to talk about death and unless you actually do the job of sitting down and running through it, I can imagine a scenario where no one's ever asked those questions and then things happen and paths go in a completely different direction. That feedback that you get from people, the kind of eye-opening moment of oh actually, I see what you're saying. This is what I really mean Is that an experience that you get often from clients?

 Heidi: Yeah, and that usually prompts other things right. So that will prompt me to say, okay, well, it's probably important, if that's specifically what you want, that we need to go meet with the attorney and make sure that we have a will and a trust in place that are going to do those things. But if your main goal is to spend every dollar and you know on your deathbed to balance the last check, I mean, then we may not necessarily need an estate plan, but we probably should put something in place just in case. But I mean and sometimes we have to make those conversations lighthearted because you don't want people to feel downtrodden by the conversation of you know, we're all going to die someday.

 So you know, specifically, if there's a couple where there's a pretty big age gap with the husband or the wife, you know we do have to have the conversation that you know this one you're probably going to pass away before. So we need to have a plan in place. Especially if you have a pension or you're going to lose the social security or there's some income that's going to be lost, we need to make sure that when that happens, that we are prepared for that. So I think it makes them feel better because as married couples, most of the time we're not talking about that with each other and we don't want to make our spouse feel uncomfortable. So when I am prompting the conversation, you know there's a lot of times you know we have to be just as good a marriage counselors as we do it because 99% of the time the couples are polar opposite One is very strong in saving and the other one is a spender.

 And you have to find the middle road where you say, okay, I understand that you are a super saver, but you know you have enough, let's have a little bit of enjoyment with what we've done, or you have to bring it back in. And so, yeah, having that conversation it prompts, you know, a lot of dialogue in the meeting, but most of the time it's not really heavy, because I don't necessarily talk about death. I'm just saying you know things are going to happen. We need to be prepared for the what ifs.

 Stuart: Right, and particularly starting from the point of view as we started this conversation, talking about how you're entering retirement. This is a time where you're not encumbered by other work responsibilities, so it's the opportunity to do what you want to do rather than saying okay, you're approaching death, so let's get everything lined up, step out of the door. It's a more focused on the positives and the opportunities, rather than the contingency and the what ifs.

 Heidi: Yeah, it's a great time to reconnect with your spouse on a more personalized, intimate level in terms of conversation and relationship.

 Stuart: Right, yeah, yeah, it's losing number. Of years ago was she was moving to schools and had a period between schools so she was doing some. She's quite organized if you could see my office here I don't let her in here, but she's much more organized than me. So she was doing some like home organization type thing, but she's only did it for a month or two and only for people that she knew quite well, because inevitably it would turn into five minutes of organization conversation and five minutes of marriage guidance and therapy around why people are collecting so many things. So I can imagine the conversation about money is even more charged in that respect.

 Heidi: It's probably very similar because the way people live is typically the way they use their money, right. So it's honestly probably very similar because, just like you said, I am much more organized, probably than my husband, who has cabinets stuffed with things you know and I'm like let's just throw it away. But that's typically the case in most instances. You know one is one way and one is the other, but trying to find that balance. Trying to find balance, yeah.

 Stuart: Let's put this slide into the book and the Herod plan on using the book. So we often talk about the book's been using kind of three ways. There's the lead generation, at the top of the funnel, kind of introducing to new people. There's the conversion tool, if you like, for one of the better term but using it in real life, giving it to someone as a kind of an amplification of a conversation you've already had. And then the referral strategy, so the clients you've got who know, like and trust you, letting them know that this is available. So it's a great tool to give to people who they know, who are talking about their financial planning and wealth management. Did you go into the project? Did you have a particular view on how you're planning on using it? Was it one of those ways or another way?

 Heidi: So I think the main way I wanted to use it is number one for my clients, so that they can, you know, share that with their friends. It's an easy way for them to share the ideas that we're using with family members or friends and say, you know, even if you don't want to work with the same person I'm working with well, she wrote a little bit of a book that can maybe help you guide yourself, because some people just want to do it themselves. But also I think the book helps with yeah, obviously, lead generation will put it on the website and people can download the book and use that as a tool for them. But main focus was to help show that we can take complex issues and make them simple, and so there'll be probably a series of books for different things. You know, for women entrepreneurs, we want to write a book for that.

 I even want to write a simplified strategies for children so that they can understand how to start saving and investing and giving back and understand the importance of those things as well. So we're going to write a few books, but mainly they're more self help books for the general public to say, okay, if I'm looking for something that I don't have to spend, you know, five hours or six hours to get through. But you know, these books are much smaller, you know, and I can go look at the chapter and say, hey, here's a good section for me to use to help me to generate some knowledge for myself.

 Stuart: That's the thing I like about all of the clients that we work with this idea that breaking away from the traditional book, the traditional published book constraints if it has to be 200 pages to justify a $15 shelf price because the publisher wants to make $10 and then maybe $2 will trickle down to a person who also is basing their financial income on book sales. Breaking that model completely into this is the start of a conversation and just giving someone that bite size, valuable way of starting the journey in a in an accessible way. We often talk about kind of books that you could read on a flight. So at home it appears in Pennsylvania and the offices down in Florida. When I used to I drive now, but when I used to fly it was a two hour flight and jumping on and reading something and consuming that and being able to get off the plane knowing that there was a next step to take. It makes it so much more accessible and so much more kind of like democratizing the information and sharing that with useful ways.

 I really love the idea of this series that helps each individual group within the overall framework, but he helps each individual group just start that journey in the most meaningful way, going through the process obviously the book's complete now at the end of the process going through it, was there anything that you went into it expecting or thinking that was, that you wanted to include it eventually? Eventually didn't get included. This idea of kind of beneficial constraints is always one I'm kind of harping onto people about, the idea of start small and then add later, rather than going into this huge idea of a project and it being overwhelming. So was there anything that you went into it, thinking would you definitely want to include that? You then pushed for later or decided that it was out of scope.

 Heidi: Not necessarily, I think this particular book. We got to put in what we liked in there. However, for compliance purposes, there's things that we can't add or say. You can't really get into too much specifics or details, so the thing that I can say is, if you're reading the book and you're like, well, tell me exactly how to do that. The SEC doesn't necessarily allow us to put that in written form. So I would say those would be the constraints that would come not necessarily from the writing of the book or the content, but necessarily the compliance side of things.

 Stuart: And it's also the idea of showing the, or sharing the seed of the idea, and getting the people to get someone to the point that they know why they need to do it and not necessarily how exactly to do it, because the how is always case by case and gets into the technicalities but at least moving people from the point of I think I should do this too. I should definitely be doing this. That really is what moves the needle for most people.

 Heidi: Well, I think a lot of times people only react when they're scared, when they are comfortable or when they just don't know. They do nothing, and that's most the time the wrong decision. It's when they get extremely uncomfortable and they're in a panic, is when they start to react and make decisions. And so I hope that the book helps people realize that. You know, just start calling, asking questions. It prompts you to write down some questions that you would want to ask and you interview people that you feel comfortable with, and when you finally get to that point where you're like, yes, this is the person I want to work with, then you can get into the in-depth sections of how this is going to work and how it's going to function for you. But doing nothing most of the time is the wrong thing. Or if you have an advisor now and you're just like, well, I don't really know what they do, I get that a lot. People come in here and I'm like, okay, well, tell me what your plan has been. Well, I don't know.

 Stuart: That's not a good response. You should know what's going on.

 Yeah, rather than hoping that everyone happens to be on the same page and is pulling the same direction. This has been great. What I really love about the opportunity to get to speak with people is you can see their passion coming out and coming through, which obviously comes through in the pages. But it makes a difference having some real conversation, which again I guess is the purpose of the book the book that you lead to a real conversation with a real person who's consumed something, has decided that you're the right person to work with because you resonate and move forward from there. Where can people find out more about their organization? I want to make sure we leave people with some, a place where they can go and actually find out more.

Heidi: Yeah, so you can go to agapewealthcom, which is a-g-a-p-e wealthcom. You can call us at 228-333-5683. You can visit us on Facebook. You just go to Facebook, backslash agapewealthcom, and that's our Facebook page. And then there's also LinkedIn as well. So we have multiple ways to get in contact with us.

 Stuart: All the channels. Well, we make sure that we put links in the show notes so, as people are listening, they can just click on the podcast player or, if they're watching on the website, we'll link directly through and just highly recommend people go and grab a copy, even if they're out of their area or if they think they've got someone that they're working with. As you said, it just gives you the questions in there. That just prompts more ways of thinking about things which people might not have come across before. So, yeah, well worth grabbing a copy.

 Heidi: Yeah, or empowering them to know what questions to ask.

 Stuart: Right, yeah, for sure. Well, thanks for your time. It's been a real pleasure. Everyone listen. We'll put notes in there, we'll put links in the show notes, so definitely follow that for sure, and we'll check back in with you in a few months and see how things are going and look forward to seeing the rest of the series come serve fruition as well.

 Heidi: Yeah, thanks for having me on, and we really are excited about the book and look forward to the next ones that we're going to write.

 Stuart: Fantastic thanks, heidi. Thanks for watching and we'll catch you in the next one.

 Heidi: Thanks.