This week Betsey & I answer some of your questions... at least that was the plan. We end up deep diving 2 issues that come up time & again in the questions we field:

• How long should my book be?

• How much editing should I do?

This is a hugely valuable show for anyone who has had a book on their 'to do' list.  We focus on the purpose and benefits of writing a book to start a conversation with potential clients.

 

Links

Hot Prospects Book

Transcript - Book More Show 015

Stuart: Hey welcome to another Book More Show. It's Stuart here with Betsy. Betsy Vaughn, how are you doing?

Betsey: Great Stuart, it's great to be here.

Stuart: Fantastic, this week as promised we've got another Q & A show. Through the support mailbox over here at 90-Minute Books we got quite a few questions. Some of them are obviously very specific to the program, not that interesting to other people, but there's quite a number of them that come through that are pretty generic or equally applicable to people in the 90-Minute Book program or people who are just writing book themselves. I thought it would be worth while to dive into a few of those. A couple of them are similar to ones we've answered before, but they're the ones that come up all the time so I think it's worth while running through the answers again. Maybe we'll address it in a slightly different way this time that might help a few more people. We'll run through those.

just a reminder for people that we've got some great interview shows coming up over the next couple weeks or couple of months rather by the time we release them into the feed. Keep an eye out for those. There is some great content in there for people talking about how they're actually using it at the moment. The reason I bring it up at the beginning of the show rather the end is although we're going to go through some of the details, some of the Q&A details that people have asked, the majority of the questions that we get are very much around specifics and execution rather than the broader strategy. The good thing about the interview shows is it's more about broader strategy and how people can actually use books within their business and really make a difference to the bottom line, rather than technical questions if whether answer A or answer B.

I'll try to keep those in mind as we go through, try to keep it more at the strategy level and remind people of how it should be implemented. How it can really be used rather than too much of the details, but obviously details are always good to answer. It should be a great show.

How do you want to play this? Take a guess if we start with a couple of questions and then we'll see how that goes? If we have enough time at the end we'll do a rapid fire round. I think some of these will get ... one question will lead to another. Do you want to give us a bit of ... you're actually dealing with quite a lot of the questions as they come in. Is there anything that ... what's thematically the ... Are you getting the same common questions coming through?

Betsey: We really do. When I go back and I'm talking to our potential clients before they come on board. They do typically ask the same questions. After I explain our process, the specific 90-Minute Book process, of the calls that we do, and the recordings and transcription and things like that. People get into things, one of the biggest questions is how long should my book be? Does it need to be 200 pages? On our end, from our standpoint, no it doesn't. We have great books that are 30 pages, but we have some excellent books that are 75 pages. It really ... As we explain it to a client that we're using their words for the 90-Minute Book process so how they speak and what they say is the book. If there are people who are great speakers and comfortable in this setting of recording then we tend to see a little bit longer book.

If it's somebody that is a little more on the quiet side and doesn't have as much to offer then the book might not be as long as someone who's is a little more confident in their abilities. There is no right or wrong answer for that one. It is what your content is and what your message is, as far as how many pages it should be. Obviously we need a minimum, there's a minimum technically, 24-25 pages to make the book look good, but other than that it's free range on what you're comfortable speaking about.

Stuart: I think it goes back to last point the technical question of ... or the tactic question of how big it should be versus the strategy of what you're trying to achieve with it. It always comes back to that. There was one of the shows we did near the beginning of the stream, I'll see if I can find it and put it into your notes, if not don't worry about it too much because we'll go through it again here.

The strategy of what you're trying to achieve is more important than the technicalities of whether it should be 37 pages or 52 pages. I think if people think in terms of where does this book sit in an overall engagement funnel, then that's a much more valuable way of looking at it than I've got this amount of content do I need more or is it sufficient. Where it sits in the funnel, what the funnel is trying to achieve, what the outcome, the next step that you're trying to get the reader to take all leads into how big it should be. It's not so much the size itself is important, it's more does it take the jump that was promised on the cover.

We've talked in the past and the Hot Profits book that I've mentioned before, which was written on the back of a conference we did earlier this year now, talks about the job of work… The next step it's trying to get the readers to take and the fact that answering one narrow question as deeply as possible is much better than trying to answer three or four questions but really just only brushing over the surface. I think if people think in terms of how deeply can you answer the one most pressing question from your audience that's relevant to the funnel that the book sits in. Who you are trying to engage, what are their questions, how big is the answer to make the answer as comprehensive as possible, and that gives the answer of how big the book should be.

Betsey: Yeah absolutely.

Stuart: Exactly. I think to your point on the physical dimensions of the books, we tend to print ... Anyone that seen one of the 90-Minute Books will recognize the eight by five format. Anything over about 40 pages starts to make that feel quite substantial, 60 pages really makes it sit quite nicely in terms of content. That physical weight and feel, as long as it's above that bare minimum so it doesn't feel like a pamphlet. The point is it really needs to answer the question that the title promises as comprehensibly as possible, and then give someone a very clear path to be able to get more information to follow up with the next question or the next logical step in the journey. That really is the much better way of thinking about it, rather that does it need to be, as I say 37 pages.

Betsey: I think people have this mindset that the book has to be this big, thick book, heavy, weighted in order to be informative. From our standpoint, again, all we're looking for is that call to action. Are they getting what the book said, an easy read, and a simple read. I think that's what most of our books are. They're simple, they're easy, you're not spending weeks reading a book. You're getting to the point rather quickly. That's hard to train someone's mindset when they're envisioning a book on the shelf. I do a lot of conversations ... I do have a lot of conversations about the ... how big the book should be and if they want these big, thick things. I think that if we just remember the call to action is important and as long as we're delivering, that they're deliveringwhat they've promised...

Stuart: I think this must of come up in show recently because the words I can hear them echoing back in my mind as I'm about to say them again. It's the psychological benefit of having a book and giving a physical book to someone to read. Publishing has all this smoke and mirrors and mystery around it and if someone has a physical book than the majority of people out there don't think that's something that's achievable for them. They attribute more value to it than it perhaps deserves and this day and age when printing and publishing is easier than it was even just five years ago. All that mystery around having something published means that something called a book in air quotes is this thing. The thing that they've thinking of is how they've interacted with it for the past 40 years of their life.

The risk that happens and this is what we see in this conversation, people come thinking that the physical dimensions of this thing, this lead generation piece that they're creating needs to be a certain amount and a certain size, is they're falling victim of exactly the same mental model. That is the benefit of having a book as the writer rather than the reader, so they come into it thinking it needs to be this big thing because publishing is this big mystical beast and all of these things happen in the background. It has to be this big chunk of effort and chunk of work and everyone says that writing a book is the biggest most pain in the neck thing that they've done in their life, and it was a long slog and a drag and all of those things that we get the benefit of as writers using a system that is much easier to create and gives us a scalable leverage. We automatically ...

The risk of people flicking into the readers perspective and thinking it needs to be this big thing because what I'm creating is this thing called book. It's really important I think that people understand that the job at work of a book as a lead generation piece, as an engagement piece in the way that we're discussing it, is that it gets in front of people and it makes invisible leads visible in a very non-confrontational way allowing people to raise their hand. If you want to write a huge thing, a big authority building piece that is a market leading, well researched, tome of a book that will cause a big crash on a desk that's all well and good. What you should weigh it up against is the time and cost to do that, which can run into the tens of thousands of dollars and how a traditional business is that going to create versus a smaller well thought out, well crafted piece that is quick to execute and that answers one specific question as deeply as possible. It can be the worlds leading resource on this one question.

It's not like you're trying to make money from this on Amazon, so it's not like you're charging for the book for the majority of used cases that we talk about. Yes people have it as Amazon because there's a credibility element to it, yes people have it on Amazon and charge an amount because they're physically receiving something then there is a print cost. The majority of the use cases we talk about is give away a digital copy in return for an email address so that you can start a conversation. Give away a physical copy in return for address details so that you can start a conversation. The job of work as it sits in the funnel is a cookie, to use the 8-Profit Activators term, it's a cookie to get people to raise their hand. To start a conversation with you, to start to be engaged. It's not that this is your once shot deal to have a publishing deal because you want to make tens of thousands of dollars back in book revenue.

Flicking those mental models around being mindful of on the one hand that the benefit that we get as writers because readers see it as authority piece or there's some magic that's associated with having a book, not letting ourselves then as the writer to fall into the same trap thinking it needs to be this big thing. Unless there is a use case for you to have that big thing, in which case the engagement, that kind of lead generation ideas that we're talking about here probably aren't the best fit. To be able to quickly create something that starts a conversation in the most engaging way possible means that you should really focus on the one question which is the most relevant to the funnel that you have in mind. To engage someone in the first place write something that really truly gives them value and answers that one particular thing, then gives them a way to continue the conversation and ask the next question or request the next piece of information.

Again, I put that Hot Topics book which really goes into the four stages of creating this outputs linked in the show notes just so people can get a copy. If people haven't read it already then there's a great breakdown of these four elements of identifying who you should be engaging. What the subject is that's the most interesting and relevant to them. The avatar with the person what their mindset is, what the situation is in which they're likely to consume the content so it sounds relevant at possible. The most important thing of course is the next step to lead on to the conversation, so how can you develop that new relationship that you've just started to lead someone towards the logical conclusion that working with you is the best decision to resolve whatever issue they're got. The show notes for this episode, we're on episode 15 now. So it's going to be 90minutebooks.com/podcast/015 and there should be a link there to the Hot Topics book.

Betsey: It's great. That's a lot of information, but that was fantastic. I hope the people will realize. Hopefully people will take ... I like the psychological benefit. I was thinking about that when you were talking about it and I'm going to use that in my ... when I'm talking to potential clients going forward.

Stuart: The thing that's often overlooked because we get so ... I think this is what happens with every business, which is why it's so easy to look at someone else's business and think about suggestions or ways of doing things. Your mind doesn't immediately jump to the challenges or the constraints around that, you can just focus entirely on the idealization, the creation of the opportunities rather than worry about the execution. For us when we're talking to customers or potential customers that phone us up. For people who are thinking about writing a book themselves. Because those individuals and us, in that scenario, are the ones that have to execute that and have to do the stuff, it's so easy to flick into execution mode rather than the slightly higher level thinking of the opportunities and strategy. It so often comes down to tactics and it's easy to forget that the psychological, I'm going to use the word tricks but I don't necessarily mean tricks, but cues maybe or the mental models are so ingrained in us.

We're brought up in the same way. It's very difficult unless you've got an external source to snap you out of that way of thinking. It's very easy just to fall into the same routine that everyone else has got, because we're so, for better or worse, we're all so programmed in the same way. We've got the same kind of, majority speaking, we've got the same kind of upbringing, the same kind of models of interacting with other people. It's very easy to forget or to slip into the same mode. I think we need to get better at sharing that idea with people that we talk to and people who are listening now. Snap out of the model in which everyone else consumes it and think, okay what am I trying to achieve?

I'm trying to get people who are potentially interested product or service to raise their hand. I can either do that by knocking of every door or putting Facebook ads in front of them or specifically asking someone to buy now, buy now or I can offer them something of value to them. Start the conversation by giving, giving them a very robust answer to a question that they're genuinely asking and start the conversation from there. Move forward from there, don't try and it's not kind of the Glen Garry Glen Ross ‘always be closing’ line, it's more like the one best selling book of check moves. At every opportunity there's a move to progress the conversation to the next level, it's a series of steps. It's not just trying to go for the kill straight away. A small engagement book like this is a great way of starting that conversation in a way that allows you to give something first. To offer value before asking for anything and in a very non-threatening way collect the leads of those people who are interested. Step one, collect the leads, then have the conversation.

Betsey: Right, absolutely.

Stuart: Sorry. That's sort of behind the scenes on the podcast recording. I tend to record at my end and so it always means I sound great because I'm effectively locally recording and that's just whoever is on the other end sounds ... We're at the mercy of their connections.

Betsey: Sounds horrible.

Stuart: Yeah. Hopefully it won't be too bad.

Today we had three or four questions that we were talking about before we started and we were wondering where...

Betsey: We do. I'm going to ask you about editing. That's a big question that we get a lot because typically with the traditional 90 Minute Book we do the 30 minute recording, the 60 minute recording and we send those and just clean up some on words. That's what we do. Our editing is on our end, people want to edit their book. They want to get ahold of it. From our standpoint our editors do a great job of cleaning it up, but someone ... The minute they get ahold of their content file they start to tear the book apart. We've found when we send the book to them before it's been printed they do all these editings and completely... I would almost say, I don't want to say destroy the book, but they really rip it apart. Whereas when we print the book ...

We really do, we see that and personally it increases the finish time, because they have it, they're letting grandma look at it, they've got the business partner looking at it, anybody they come in contact with. We hear that, my team, well it turns out the team is everybody sitting around the kitchen table. We have found that when we just print the book and send it, it ... there's probably a psychological effect there, but oh my goodness I have this book and I didn't get to edit it. They love it. For some reason when we send it back to them to do an edit then we get into all sorts of issues with it. It prolongs the print time, it prolongs the whole process, people start to doubt their words, they tend to have that moment.

Let's talk a little bit from your perspective on maybe why we shouldn't ... I've given my reasons but I know originally when this whole process came about there was no editing of books by clients. Give me your thoughts on that.

Stuart: It's interesting isn't it? There's so many individual little things that play into this. We've seen, we're up to ... I think we're approaching almost 300 books now that we've created, and almost to a fault, every single one that we've passed back to people before getting a physical copy in their hands, it has just disappeared into a black hole of months and months and months of chasing. Where people feel the need to, as you say, get the opinion of everyone or there's a kind of a fear of closure type issue, where people just don't get out of the door.

A couple of kind of anecdotal insights from the two and a half years now that we've been doing this for. First of our early stage process that would, again, capture all the content from people, make it the best version of their words and then send it out to people before getting anything in print. The challenge with that is that as soon as you send something back to someone and say okay here's your opportunity to make some changes, they feel compelled or urged to make changes.

Because of a couple of things. One, maybe there's the feeling that well if I don't do it now, this is my only chance. That goes back to an old world publishing thing. If you're going to do a print run of 10,000 books then you want to make sure that it's checked by everyone and his dog first, and everyone signs off. Print on demand isn't like that, it's not quite as flexible as a digital file, but making updates is far more straight forward than it would be in a traditional publishing sense. There isn't the issue as it was before of it needs to be perfect the first time, otherwise the ship's sailed.

The second thing is that sometimes the expectation if okay if I don't make any changes, either I'm not giving it enough time and attention or people might think that I'm not intelligent enough to make changes. As you say to someone, here's something you can make changes. If you don't there's kind of psychological baggage of okay I haven't responded to this in the most considered way. I used to for ... In London, I used to work for Goldman’s and there was a guy I used to sit next to, Amish. He wasn't Amish, his name was Amish. We had joke whereby we would count the number of replies where people would just say, kind of like I concur, or me too, or thanks for that. So ... Do you remember the movie "Catch me if you can"? The...

Betsey: Yeah.

Stuart: The bit in the movie where he pretends to be the doctor and goes in and he's been watching some TV shows. When the other doctors made some medical comment, he would just say yes, I concur. So it was almost like that. A group email would go out saying, I'm sure this isn't specific to that office, I'm sure it happens everywhere. A group email would go out where someone would make a point and then because everyone else needed to be seen to be answering, even if they didn't have anything valuable to add. They just had to reply to everyone saying I agree, or thanks for that, or good work keep it up. Because they needed to be seen to be making a change or to contribute to the conversation even if there wasn't actually an contribution there.

Same with editing. As soon as you go back to someone saying here's an opportunity to make changes, if they don't contribute something, even if that something is of low value then there's a perception that okay you haven't contributed therefore it's an inferior interaction with what you're trying to do. That leads into you don't have anything valuable to contribute then it just goes into this big, not quite analysis, paralysis, kind of black hole of that's something that I need to get to. I need to get to. The time frame can really drag on and on and on.

Likewise the reason that the majority people don't just go and write books by themselves is because it's not a core discipline. You're core discipline is in your business, you know your business very well inside out. You've been doing it for years, all of the specialized knowledge is your head, but you're not a writer or an editor. It's foolish to then think that giving you a document or taking a document and needing to make changes to it, it's foolish to think that's going to be done in anything like an efficient time frame. It's just going to be this thing that sat on the desk there and there's a kind of guilt associated with it. Every time you look in that direction this things looking back at you saying oh you should be doing this, you should be doing this. In the end you just stop looking in that direction.

The last point, which is the one around ... I've just passed this out to a couple of people to get some feedback. Is the kind of death by committee type problem. Everyone then falls into exactly the same trap as the first point we've asked. All you've done is shared your problem with five other people, now they feel like they've got to contribute to it or they can't be seen to be ... You should just send it out with a form with a tic box saying I concur, and everyone can just tic that and return it, then your job will be done. Everyone else feels the need to make a change, and then you're dealing with five opinions of five different people. None of whom potentially are experts in this area. It just falls into the death by committee type of challenge of everyone's got an opinion.

Remember that saying that, I don't know where it came from, but it's a man with one watch is confident of the time, a man with two watches is never confident of the time. Because more opinions aren't necessarily going to make it any better. Then there's the old strategic coach term of be careful of valuing the opinions of those who don't write checks to you of those that you write checks to. Getting the opinion of employees or people who aren't actually paying for the service is far less valuable then getting the first version of the book out there, collecting real feedback from real customers.

At the end of the day, it could be the leading type approach to business. You could write something were actually you entirely missed the point, missed the actual question. You think that you're answering something that's really valuable, but all of the feedback that you might get within the first six months leads you to realize that actually there's other points. This point that is slightly to the side of the one you were initially answering is the one that was more valuable. Feedback from people who aren't writing those checks, who aren't actually real customers, you might never uncover that.

There's always this risk, and we've seen it time and time again, of how much editing should I do. It should read well, or correct. I can't speak well or correct now, but it should read as well as it can read. There is a slight inherit difference in taking a transcript of a conversation, editing that to be the best possible version of the words that are actually spoken, which is what we do in the most basic iteration of a 90 Minute Book, and then reading that back. It does read differently, again going back to the mental model that we talked about in the first question.

There is a perception of how a book should read, so the balance that we strike is to create a book that is conversational in nature where personality comes across. Where it's engaging and concise and to the point and gives people a warm feeling of getting some insider knowledge from an industry expert, from someone who really knows their stuff. Not writing something that is technical and stand-offish and definitely not writing something where it's trying to be - look at me, look how clever I am, I can answer all of these questions in peak technical terms. You're not trying to show off to the reader, you're trying to engage them. By having this conversational approach, yes it reads slightly different in some cases from what you might call a traditional book because the language is different.

That's because the job of work is different. You're not writing a book here in order to sell on Amazon and retire to a beach because you're now an author. You're writing a book as a valuable lead generation piece to give value to potential customers, to allow them to raise their hand to start that conversation in a way that makes them feel good, and gives them the answer.

the amount of editing that should be done is enough to make it read correctly. Enough to make sure that the actually ... The points you're making are actually technically correct. It would be foolish to send something that had actual mistakes in it. Above and beyond that, you run into a diminishing return scenario of every minute that you take to edit, every minute that it's not out there collecting leads is a potential customer that is going elsewhere. What I would advise people to do is be very careful about striking the right balance. It needs to be correct, it needs to read as well as it can, but the fact that it's not structured in the way that a traditional book is structured, absolutely fine. The fact that it's only addressing one particular point, absolutely fine. The fact that your personality comes out in it and the words that you use whilst talking might be different than words that you use if you were just to write an email to someone, absolutely fine.

The job of work of this is so you engage with someone, collect the lead and start that relationship, not to win a Pulitzer Prize for a book that's read and critically acclaimed. If you want to do that, that's fine, but that's a separate job of work. Be very careful, don't allow your own kind of mental bias or the model constraints that you've got in your head to derail the actual project that you're trying to achieve, which is engaging and collecting leads.

Editing is definitely one of those things, it's very very easy for people to get derailed on and sink a whole load of time which is effectively wasted efforts. It would be interesting to, for people to ... if they haven't, to make sure they get a copy of their 90 Minute Book from 90minutebooks.com. That book, we've done as I said, we're closing in on 300 books now, we've been doing this for two and a half years. The first version of the book, we've edited it again recently, so we've done reiteration on it, but for the first two years we intentionally left it at the very roughly edited first version of the book that came straight from that transcript.

The point that we were trying to make is that the title is the thing that captures peoples attention. The cover design of the book is the eye catching piece that draws an eye towards it in the first place. The sub heading and the back cover copy are the things that allow people all the ... if not a back cover copy if they don't have a physical copy, then the sub heading on the landing page, natural copy on the landing page, is the thing to get people to raise their hand. No one turns around and says okay I'm not going to give you my email address details to get a copy of this until I've seen every page of the content. The content just needs to be good enough to create that relationship and take it on to the next stage.

It's always interesting, people will come back to us and say okay, what about this, what about that. These are actual customers, actual customers that have paid us money. We'll say well it's exact ally the same way in the 90 Minute Book or the question you're asking is in the 90 Minute Book. The point you are trying to make, we had a great discussion about it in the 90 Minute Book. If you read that first, that's probably going to answer your question. The amount of people that come back and say actually I haven't read it, I haven't read it, I haven't read it is really going to prove the point that the content needs to be compelling enough and valuable enough to move the conversation on to the subset of people who read it. It is the minority of people who read it though not the majority. The main point is the cover and the title, the promise of answering a problem that someone's got rather than some award winning critically acclaimed content.

That was my very brief two cents.

Betsey: You mentioned ... Talking about editing leads into one of the questions we need to answer about how long the process takes. The typical process is very simple. If we stick to the process we're looking at four to six weeks without any hiccups. When we send the book to be edited by the client, that process usually goes somewhere like twelve weeks. That's a big difference when you're...

Stuart: If not even more than that, because we've got months and months and months books disappear for because of this whole problem that we've just described. I'm sure in all of those there are legitimate ones where some change in business or change in direction or perhaps people have realised that they actually were too ... they were trying to do too much in the book and this point of trying to answer one question as deeply as possible maybe they feel ... But the majority of it is this analysis paralysis issue.

I've just noticed the time and we are running ... We've just blown past thirty minutes.

Betsey: Way over.

Stuart: Yeah yeah. Having started by saying that we'll get to some rapid fire stuff at the end, we didn't even get through the list of the ones that...

Betsey: No we didn't.

Stuart: Just answer that point and then we'll close on how long should the process take. Four to six weeks we should be able to have a conversation with you to outline it in the first place. Make sure that you're message is dialed in as laser focused as you can be in order to achieve the outcome that you're trying to achieve. We can take the steps necessary to get the content out, usually we've got that captured. Edited it so that it can be the best possible version of your words and then print it so that first run can get out there and collect leads within four to six weeks.

All those things are tactics, those are the nuts and bolts of how the process works. The strategy, the benefit is that efficiency and speed to market. Imagine in four to six weeks from now, so we recorded on the 20th of August so that would be, four to six weeks would be mid to end September. So by the time the kids have been back in school for a couple of weeks, the book can be out there collecting leads. If you need to iterate on it afterwards, if you need to make changes to it, the benefits of digital publishing, on demand publishing means that's not a problem at all. It's easy to update. The speed at which you can get there. By the time that someone else has even considered what their book might be about, or gone back and forth getting the opinion of a couple of people to say I'm thinking about doing this or I'm thinking about doing that. This can be out there collecting leads.

It only needs to take 90 minutes of your time, we have a conversation to outline it in the first place. We take about an hour to capture all of the content. You have got the option to get involved at various stages of the design process for the cover, but obviously our designers have done ... approaching 300 covers now, so they've really dialed in on the types of things you need. You don't need to put any more effort into it. It can be out there collecting leads, again feedback. Getting new business, and then if you want worry about editing it and making some changes and tweaking it based on real life feedback. Just as the leading start up model would suggest, get something out there and test it in the real world. Get some money in, get some business in and then make some changes. Rather than just hypothesizing about what might be the best thing. Six months goes by and nothing happens. There we go. I think talking about it so efficiently got it out there.

Betsey: That's it.

Stuart: That's probably a good place to leave it.

Betsey: Getting it out there. That's one of the things we say to people all the time. Let's just get it out there and you start growing your business, growing those leads. We can tweak later. Otherwise it is, it's just sitting there and you're not growing your business, but you're not editing your book either. It's sitting somewhere.

Stuart: I think that's a good place to wrap. We've got, I'm not sure whether it'll be in next weeks episode or the week after, just getting the schedule lined up for the next couple of shows. The interview that we've got with previous authors is really going to underline what we've just talked about today. The difference that getting it out there, collecting, engaging with potential customers. The difference that can make to your business. Definitely keep an ear out over the next couple of episodes for that. I think that will really give people some insight into what a difference it can make to the bottom line, rather that just kind of talking about the production process itself.

As I said before this show is episode 015, episode 15. So head across to 90minutebooks.com/podcast/015 and it'll take you straight to this episode or just to the podcast page and it'll be the top in the list. If you're ready to get started now, if you want to reach out to us then head straight across to 90minutebooks.com/start to get started or if you still have some questions after what we've talked about today just shoot us a note at hello@90minutebooks and we'll get back to you and be happy to answer any of those questions.

Upcoming shows over the next couple of weeks if there's anything that you want us to specifically address then drop us an email to podcast@90minutebooks and we'll try to build that into a future show. Always happy to feedback to people directly so reach out to us those ways and look forward to seeing what your book's about.

Any closing words from your side?

Betsey: No I think we're good. It was great, got most of our questions answered and these podcasts are great. People love listening to them and they do peak some interest. I get a lot of calls once these go through. I look forward to speaking to everybody once they've heard this and have other questions.

Stuart: Fantastic that sounds great. Thanks everyone and we'll catch you next time.